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Wed Dec 13, 2000, 11:42pm
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not me
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I don't feel like I look bad on an idiotic call by a partner. I ain't wearin' that shoe and if someone wants to put it on me, it won't fit. Further, I feel most fans, coaches and players will recognize who blew what. I would deal with that partner as follows: Get the game done! mick 
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Thu Dec 14, 2000, 03:01am
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Dan_ref:
Last year in my first year, I had one of these lousy partners. I mean he was over-bearing, loud, insulting and rude to me the coaches and the players. I was feeling pretty green, but I knew I was better than to deserve to be treated this way, and the coach who he T'ed for asking an honest, quiet question at half-time really didn't deserve the treatment. About three minutes into the third quarter, I was inbounding the ball on the endline (it was a VERY small gym) and there were a number of parents standing close enough that I could count their whiskers. This partner came running down and pointed out for all to hear that I wasn't supposed to bounce pass the ball on the end line (I had no intention) and I should hand it -- he demonstrated and then handed me the ball and said, "Now you try!" I accidentally looked up at one dad who rolled his eyes and started laughing. That dad taught me a lesson -- it wasn't me who looked like a fool that day. Incidentally, I complained about the treatment I received and the fellow iwn't in the association this year, I notice. Hmmm...
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Thu Dec 14, 2000, 03:22am
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JoeD1 --
On the other hand, here is my idea of a really incredibly good partner. It was about my fourth game ever -- well, I don't know, maybe sixth. I handed the ball to be inbounded, the girl with the ball reached it across the line and the defender stole it. I knew it was legal, because I had just been studying that section of the book at breakfast. (Okay, I know, my husband has already told me this is weird!) But my partner watched for a second, waited and finally blew his whistle. He waved me over and asked me why I hadn't blown it. I said I knew it was legal, he disagreed, but I held my ground. By this time the coach of the girl who had lost the ball was screaming. My partner went over to that coach and defended me! On a rule that he didn't understand! Even though he knew how inexperienced and uncertain I was! When the coach asked why he blew his whistle, he said he hadn't known that rule, and wasn't it lucky I was so well-versed? Totally non-sarcastic, completely serious. Then he took the ball, gave it to the team that had stolen it, and off we went. Wow! What a man!
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Thu Dec 14, 2000, 03:29am
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Dan,
I don't know how long you have been in this game , but if any new officials take you seriously they will regret it. Pistol
__________________
Pistol
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Thu Dec 14, 2000, 08:34am
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No one is saying he was not wrong, there is just a right time and place to hold the discussion.
Picture yourself in the stands and you see two refs getting at each other. What will you think the rest of the game? What will the coaches think? What would an assignor or observer think? We are the third team on the floor, and like it or not, sometimes we have sack up and continue in that situation. You don't have to like it or enjoy it, but we are all professionals, so we HAVE to do it. I know we have some observers out there...What would you like to see your crew members do?
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Thu Dec 14, 2000, 11:09am
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As a young ref myself (2nd year), I sympathize with Joe. It seems veteran officials fall into one of two groups in regard to their attitudes about working with newer refs. Some guys pass off this attitude that they shouldn't have to work with you and you're a burden (which they determine - somehow - before you've made a call). Other guys are really cool about it and try hard to be helpful and communicative.
Unfortunately, I have found a fair number from that first group. The problem is, I'm pretty sure that being confrontational with them (whether you are right or wrong) will not help the game go more smoothly. If the goal is to conduct a consistently and professionally-officiated game, I would probably not confront a guy who I know will react badly. For me, sometimes it's hard not being confrotational, but I try to put the integrity of that night's game before my pride. I keep hearing and reading about how we need to build our ranks by encouraging and teaching younger officials. I have been a little put out, however, that some veterans (certainly not all) send a very clear message that they don't want us around. I'm interested to hear from you vets about how you feel about newer officials. Joe
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Thu Dec 14, 2000, 11:21am
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I became a trainer for our association because of the newer, not necessarily younger officials. I am, however, put out by newer officials that only cracked the officials' manual for an initial testing procedure. I enjoy working with newer officials at any level from Jr.High (middle school) to JV level, and if any questions are asked, I am happy to answer, or find the answer. mick
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Thu Dec 14, 2000, 11:58am
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even when your partner obviously blows a call? Let's put aside for the moment that the guy has no business making the call. He just made a bad call& you know it.
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Thu Dec 14, 2000, 12:46pm
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Quote:
__________________
Pistol
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Thu Dec 14, 2000, 01:05pm
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I agree that it is unacceptable not to have spent some serious "book time" in learning to be officials. My guess is that those officials will choose to remedy that situation as soon as they put their feet in their mouths in front of an experienced coach. I *do* work hard to understand the rules and cases, but I still find things on which I'm not perfectly clear. For me, it is the fear that I will not be prepared to rule quickly, confidently, and correctly that keeps me studying.
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Thu Dec 14, 2000, 01:08pm
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Without new officials the sport would be lost. I have been an active official, educator and clinition since the early 60's.The experienced guys have to WANT to work with the novices. I f they don't, they shouldn't be assigned to those games. When so assigned I feel you have to trust each other-call your own areas and learn to take the heat for your own calls and no-calls. Only in truly obvious situations should either official make a call in his partner's area . That should happen rarely. When it does , you should communicate the reason clearly to your partner and by doing so to everyone else. I saw this happen just the other day between two very experienced officials. One called double dribble ,in the grey area as the dribbler was passing from the trail's area to the lead's. The official who did not make the call immediately gave a double tweet of his whistle -rushed over to his partner and with an obvious deflection signal combined with the verbalization-"the defence deflected the ball" Changed the call and gave the ball back to the offence.GREAT officiating and PERFECT teamwork. Everyone in the place realized these guys were a good team!! Remember it can never be confrontational.
YIBB PISTOL
__________________
Pistol
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Thu Dec 14, 2000, 01:21pm
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After 9 or 10 years, I still have that "Angst". I do not know if I will ever feel totally confident with my game. If I ever do, perhaps that is the time for me to quit taking up space on the floor. I started officiating when I was old, and now I am that much older. I have a lot of lost time to make up, so I am aiming for quality before I have to quit. mick
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Thu Dec 14, 2000, 02:47pm
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Quote:
I'm gonna ask you how is it younger officials would regret taking the advice I gave in this thread? Go back & read what I said, pay close attention to the parts where I say before reversing the leads bad call you should confer with him. How is doing it "my way" bad advice, and doing it "your way" "GREAT officiating and PERFECT teamwork"? You also touch on the issue of trusting our partners, but you might find that I did bring that up as potentially the reason why the lead took that call away from the less experienced trail. So, I'll say it again: the lead made the wrong over & back call because he did not trust his partner. The only way to stop these guys from over-reaching is to take the call back from him. The hardest thing for new officials (and I'll admit I am a new official compared to someone doing it since the early '60s) to gain is self confidence under presssure. If you can't correct your own partner *in this case* how can you deal with coaches? Anyway I think we've about beat this thing to death by now.
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Thu Dec 14, 2000, 02:55pm
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Dan,
Maybe I misread what you have been saying-I sincerely hope so!! Pistol
__________________
Pistol
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Fri Dec 15, 2000, 08:15am
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Again, the point is not to meekly accept the call by one's partner overstepping his bounds, nor to "go along to get along." The point is that there are different ways to go about resolving or dealing with the situation, and choosing a confrontational approach destined to foster animosity is less desireable and less effective overall than using our "people skills" to handle things. Our desired end result is the same (get the guy to stop calling well out of his area), but our means to getting there is quite different. I appreciate those of you who spoke up in favor of people skills.
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