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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 09, 2000, 03:26pm
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Question

Alright people. I had a pair of extremely frustrating JV games this week. I thought someone could maybe offer some advice.

I am a third year official and I really try very to understand the rules and be mechanically sound. I was working these games with an older, more-experienced official. We didn't have time to conduct a pregame, primarily because most of the officials in my association show up 10 to maybe 15 minutes before game time.

There have been a couple of points on which I have been working very hard. I think about these before every game. One of these is officiating my primary area of coverage (this is in a 2 man crew).

My partner *consistently* made calls that were COMPLETELY in my area. And, to make it worse, the vast majority of these were totally wrong calls. For example, he was in the lead position both times (almost to the end line each time) when he called two backcourt violations. I was on top of the play and they were very obviously not a violation.

One of my problems with this is that I feel it makes me look like a fool. I had to bite my tongue during the game and it really distracted me at times. Can any of you offer any advice?

I call with two groups. This group is small, unorganized, and the majority of the referees are what I would consider unprofessional. But, I also call games with a much larger, well organized, and very professional group of referees. Being a third-year official, I take games anywhere I can get them and pretty much anytime.

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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Old Sun Dec 10, 2000, 01:09am
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I think you have to speak up at halftime and tell this guy to call in his area. You may piss him off but better he be pissed off than continue to put up with such crap. BTW, it's likely that he's the one looking like the fool.

You may need to make a decision as to whether you want to continue working with the smaller group. If it continues to create these types of situations, I would probably drop it.
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Old Sun Dec 10, 2000, 09:52am
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As far as experience goes which is more important, quality or quantity?
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Old Sun Dec 10, 2000, 12:02pm
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I agree to let him know that you are more than competent to call your own area. Inform him to read the 2 person crew mechanics to understand his area of priority. If you make him mad, tough! You obviously know your stuff, and want to do a good job. I think you need to take all the games you can get, but if I would call the AD's and if you find yourself booked with this guy again, request out of the game. Most officials like this are set in there ways, and nothing you can do will change that. Keep up the hard work, and good luck on your partners!!!!!!!!!
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Old Mon Dec 11, 2000, 09:57am
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I agree that you should talk to the partner, but approach is very important. Think about it: A 3-year official trying to tell a "veteran" official to call his own area? If I'm working with a relative rookie, and he starts telling me what to do because he "knows" he's right about something, I'm gonna smile and then tell him he may not know as much as he thinks. In your situation, Joe, you may be absolutely accurate in your description, but better to approach your partner more subtly and ASK about those couple of situations, explaining that they were in your area of responsibility, you had a good look at them, and they really appeared to be legal. If the veteran insists he was right in calling the violations, then ask him to help you learn by experience by letting you "live or die" with your own calls. Plus, if he is watching your area (i.e., watching the ball everywhere), how are you as a crew going to cover the off-ball action adequately.

My point is that you can choose to approach the situation firmly by telling him to "butt out," but you are more likely to get him "working" with you and have a better second half if you approach him with a degree of respect. Nothing begets defensiveness faster than telling someone flat out how to do his job, and that's not going to make for a smoother game. Swallow some pride or ego by being more subtle in trying to address the problem, and take some personal satisfaction in how you handled the situation. Who knows, maybe you'll learn something new. At the least, you'll learn how to work with someone more effectively that you'd rather not work with at all if you had a choice.
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Old Mon Dec 11, 2000, 10:56am
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
I think you have to speak up at halftime and tell this guy to call in his area. You may piss him off but better he be pissed off than continue to put up with such crap. BTW, it's likely that he's the one looking like the fool.

You may need to make a decision as to whether you want to continue working with the smaller group. If it continues to create these types of situations, I would probably drop it.
Joe, I agree with Tony's advice and I would only add that
this "vet" is making your calls because he does not trust
you. What you should have done, particularly on the back
court whistles, was to declare an inadvertent whistle.
Run over to him & ask him what he saw, then tell him he was
wrong and give the ball back to A, whether he agrees or not.
Let everyone in the gym know you have corrected his mistake.
He might be pissed but he won't be making your calls any
more.

-Dan
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 11, 2000, 11:28am
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Question Gees, Dan!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Joe, I agree with Tony's advice and I would only add that
this "vet" is making your calls because he does not trust
you. What you should have done, particularly on the back
court whistles, was to declare an inadvertent whistle.
Run over to him & ask him what he saw, then tell him he was
wrong and give the ball back to A, whether he agrees or not.
Let everyone in the gym know you have corrected his mistake.
He might be pissed but he won't be making your calls any
more.

-Dan
Dan,
I could never do that.
If that other Ref is so mentally challenged to make a horrible reach-and-call, there is no telling what kind of argument could ensue right there in front of God and everybody.
mick
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Old Mon Dec 11, 2000, 07:53pm
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Mick, as far as I'm concerned if my partner as *lead*
makes *any* backcourt call he has gone far over
the line and I'm gonna fix both the play and his thinking
right then & there. As I said I'll go over & have a "make
believe conference" with him but there's no way
I'm letting him have that call.

BTW, are you getting clobbered with the white stuff?
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 11, 2000, 08:01pm
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Smile

Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Mick, as far as I'm concerned if my partner as *lead*
makes *any* backcourt call he has gone far over
the line and I'm gonna fix both the play and his thinking
right then & there. As I said I'll go over & have a "make
believe conference" with him but there's no way
I'm letting him have that call.

BTW, are you getting clobbered with the white stuff?
Dan,
That blows me away, that you would do that!
Oh, well, you wouldn't have to do it to me.
Not much snow U.P. here, relative to other years. Plenty for snowmobiling and skiing. Plus when we get snow the moisture content is usually pretty low so it's not too heavy. In general, 10" of our snow is probably equal in weight to one inch of Chicago snow. Those poor Chicago fans.
mick
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 12, 2000, 01:38pm
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Wow! Thanks for all the input. It will all be very useful, I'm sure. I'm not a very confrontational person, and Lord knows I've made my fair share of mistakes (and then some!).

Under most circumstances, things like that don't bother me. But in this case, he was really making me look like a total fool. I didn't say anything to him during the game, but if we call together again, I'll bring it up in a polite manner.

Thanks again.

(Snow - what's that?!?)

[Edited by JoeD1 on Dec 12th, 2000 at 12:41 PM]
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 12, 2000, 06:45pm
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Agree with Todd's approach-I might add that TRUST is the most important thing official teams must have between them. The pre-game is vital,especially when working with these difficult partners. Don,t try to do too many games and strive to work with the most professional group possible. Working with an unprofessional group will only make you develop bad habits and you will find it difficult to progress.
YIBB
Pistol
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 13, 2000, 01:24pm
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Thanks, Pistol. Until your post, I was feeling rather surprised and disappointed at how many were supporting a more confrontational approach. I understand the inclination to do so, but I believe the most successful officials are those who have and utilize good "people skills" with players and coaches. If we can hold our tongues with coaches, and say something in a calm and helpful manner, why wouldn't we apply those same skills with our fellow officials? Being confrontational, and not caring whether we "piss off" our partner, is neither professional nor helpful. Discussing what we noticed, listening to his/her explanation and trying to agree on a procedure that will get us through this particular game most smoothly will, in my opinion, yield the best result. Having an angry discourse during halftime will likely see TWO angry officials come out for the second half who are short in patience, not working as a team, and unable to concentrate fully on their jobs. And THAT is neither good for the game, nor for the officials themselves.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 13, 2000, 01:34pm
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We have to remember that the only person out there in our corner is our partner. If you are having issues with him, address it in a professional manner during dead balls or at halftime. Like was said earlier, the best apprach is to find out what was seen by your partner. I have seen games, and worked games where there is ill will between partners...it sucks.

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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 13, 2000, 01:39pm
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SNOW: frozen atmospheric vapour falling to earth in light white flakes. Enjoy..

I AM CANADIAN!

SH
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 13, 2000, 11:24pm
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Well. All of you "why can't we all just get along" guys
out there who have a problem with my confrontational
approach seem to have no problem with the fact that
the guy not only called way out of his area (lead making
a backcourt call) but he got the call wrong. Do you
all go out of your way to protect your partners after
they've blown a call, gone out of their way to reverse
the ball & make you look bad? All in 1 whistle.
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