Help, I've got the Peeks! (Mech Question)

[tomegun]

"During the two minute, dead ball game when we get together to pump ourselves up for the final seconds of a close game, I often mention "Let's make sure we help each other on the Threes."..........while someone is getting slaughtered in the paint right in front of you.

This is mechanically wrong and you should trust your partners. You can justify it all you want but it is not something that should become a normal part of a game. I don't know what kind of games you are officiating but the ones I work do not allow me the opportunity to stray. My game tonight came down to the buzzer. I was the trail and the shot was taken on the opposite side of the court. Could I look over there? No! I had to watch the rebounders since one kid was about 6'7" 265lbs and the other kid was about 6'7", thin as a rail but could jump out of the gym. I HAD to stay with the rebounders. I guess if I had pre-determined that I wasn't going to make a call no matter what or I didn't have the courage I could have looked anyplace I wanted. I have a make-up game tomorrow and I will stress that, off-ball officiating. Just tonight I had to tell the JV guys they were going to sprain a muscle watching the ball all over the court.

Mick,can you answer this with no buts. Is what you are saying mechanically correct?

[mick]

Originally posted by tomegun
"During the two minute, dead ball game when we get together to pump ourselves up for the final seconds of a close game, I often mention "Let's make sure we help each other on the Threes."..........while someone is getting slaughtered in the paint right in front of you.

This is mechanically wrong and you should trust your partners. You can justify it all you want but it is not something that should become a normal part of a game. I don't know what kind of games you are officiating but the ones I work do not allow me the opportunity to stray. My game tonight came down to the buzzer. I was the trail and the shot was taken on the opposite side of the court. Could I look over there? No! I had to watch the rebounders since one kid was about 6'7" 265lbs and the other kid was about 6'7", thin as a rail but could jump out of the gym. I HAD to stay with the rebounders. I guess if I had pre-determined that I wasn't going to make a call no matter what or I didn't have the courage I could have looked anyplace I wanted. I have a make-up game tomorrow and I will stress that, off-ball officiating. Just tonight I had to tell the JV guys they were going to sprain a muscle watching the ball all over the court.

Mick,can you answer this with no buts. Is what you are saying mechanically correct?

tomegun,
I figgered watching your own primary first went without saying. But you said it anyway, and of course I agree.
mick

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by tomegun


I don't know what kind of games you are officiating but the ones I work do not allow me the opportunity to stray. My game tonight came down to the buzzer. I was the trail and the shot was taken on the opposite side of the court. Could I look over there? No! I had to watch the rebounders since one kid was about 6'7" 265lbs and the other kid was about 6'7", thin as a rail but could jump out of the gym. I HAD to stay with the rebounders.

Look, I don't know who you are or where you work or the level you work at and I am sure you're the best thing that's happened to basketball in the last 50 years. But you're wrong. Please don't take this as a personal attack but one of the silliest things we refereees like to say is "if you're looking over there who's looking over here". Well, I'm telling you we need to look everywhere.

Generally (notice I said generally), we keep track of the game clock, keep an eagle eye on the shot clock, get a good view of how the O & D are setting up, sneak a peak at the coach if we think he needs a timeout, look for cutters coming in & out, watch how a play might develop, etc etc and still manage to referee our area. Let's face it, no assignor pays me or you to stare at the 5 square feet in front of us. Court awareness. I'm not saying watch the ball, I'm not saying call all over the court, I'm not saying there are not times where you need to focus like a hawk on a matchup, I am saying that if you are only aware of what's happening in your area and not what's happening on the court then you might as well not show up. And if you at L blow the whistle and tell me at T that A1 had his foot on the 3 point line while I have both arms in the air I am not going to wonder who the hell was watching the 2 big guys banging in the post. I am going to thank you. Because we got it right.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Larks
Do you peek?

3-man high school game. I am lead table side, closed down to the lane line extended. Ball is nr. the FT line ext. Skip pass over to the wing to the 2 guard who chucks it. Slot is straightlined but indicates 3. It goes. Slot indicated good.

Here is what I did....tell me what you have done / recommend...In theory, this question could apply, maybe more so to 2-man.

I took a peek and saw the foot clearly on the line. I indicated 2 (two fingers extended pointing towards the floor). After it went, I killed it and made sure we only scored 2. Come to find out, T saw what I saw too and also hit his whistle when I did.

What do you old guys think....will the peeks get me in the soup? Is there a cure for the peeks? Was I ok?

Larks
VIT

A few years ago I patented a device just for your problem. It involves special glasses for the official to wear that can detect when the official is looking at the ball when he should not. The glasses are connected to a battery pack that sends an electrical charge to the official's "reserved parking space" whenever the glasses detect that the official is looking at the ball when he should not. I just do not know why I have not sold more of them.

[Larks]

MTD, thats classic.

Does it take 9v batteries?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Larks
MTD, thats classic.

Does it take 9v batteries?

Nope, a car battery. I can't understand either why he hasn't sold more of them.

[tomegun]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
[B
Look, I don't know who you are or where you work or the level you work at and I am sure you're the best thing that's happened to basketball in the last 50 years. But you're wrong. Please don't take this as a personal attack but one of the silliest things we refereees like to say is "if you're looking over there who's looking over here". Well, I'm telling you we need to look everywhere.

[/B]

Dan, I'm not hardly the best thing to happen to the game. The game is probably 5th on my list of the best things to happen to me. I was just making a point with Mick that we cannot go in thinking it is OK to make this a regular part of our game. That's all nothing more nothing less.
When you speak of the L getting a call right that the T missed are you talking about 2-person or 3-person? I think the two are very different. You have to extend all areas in 2-person so I can see that happening more often. In 3-person this should only happen during transition, between the L and T, or possibly a trap situation where the T is high and the shot is taken in the corner. It should not happen between the L and C in a 3-person game. Do you dissagree with that?
I didn't take any offense to your words because sometimes a "personal attack" makes us better. We are trying to get plays right and your opinion causes me to look at things from a different view. That is a good thing to me. Plus, if we have thin skin we are in the wrong business.

[OverAndBack]

This happened to me two weeks ago (sorry if I'm too new to really chime in here, I won't make any presumptions). I was L, and because of the angle where the play developed, I clearly saw the shooter's foot on the line on a three (having ADD sometimes means you can see a whole lot of things---including, yes, the area you're supposed to be looking at---in a short time).

Then I quickly looked back where I was supposed to be looking, in the paint, but I could tell the shot went in because of the way everybody reacted. My partner and I made eye contact (he didn't signal three), I signalled two, he looked at me again as if to say "you sure?" and I emphatically put the two fingers down again to say "Yep, I' sure." He said cool, one of the 25 or so fans there wondered aloud about it, but we went on.

Next break he said he was glad I was sure because he didn't have a good view of it.

The debate is good, though, because I realize that there's a reason they call your primary coverage area your primary coverage area (and not your sole coverage area). Just reading this thread will make me more aware that I need to concentrate on my area that much more.

However, since I do have ADD and quick eyes, I will try to help out my partner if he looks to me as if he needs/wants it. If you're in synch, sometimes you can get it done with a nod and body language and don't need to stop the game and talk it over.

But, as mentioned, the important thing is to get it right. As long as everybody is on the same page with that, and doesn't get their ego bruised if their partner helps them out with a call, the game will be fair.

And that's the whole point, isn't it?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by tomegun

Dan, I'm not hardly the best thing to happen to the game. The game is probably 5th on my list of the best things to happen to me. I was just making a point with Mick that we cannot go in thinking it is OK to make this a regular part of our game. That's all nothing more nothing less.
When you speak of the L getting a call right that the T missed are you talking about 2-person or 3-person? ...
[/B]

When I speak of getting the call right I mean get the call right. If I signal a 3 that's actually a 2, do you think the next day's sports section will say "Dan blew a last second call that gave the visitors the game. Tomegun and Bart were the other 2 officials, but since that shot wasn't in their primary they did a good job."

[tomegun]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

When I speak of getting the call right I mean get the call right. If I signal a 3 that's actually a 2, do you think the next day's sports section will say "Dan blew a last second call that gave the visitors the game. Tomegun and Bart were the other 2 officials, but since that shot wasn't in their primary they did a good job."
[/B]

Wow, now I know what it is like to be taken out of context! After what you quoted I went on to expain why I asked wheter it is 2 or 3 person. Do you really think that if Johnny's mom is getting dental work done on her son she is going to care that Dan was watching the ball while her son caught a bow in the paint? Are you going to T up coach A when he is pissed about a illegal pick that caused someone to be wide open for the go ahead basket that you missed because you wanted to make sure your partner (who is also getting paid for the game) was seeing the correct thing? My point is what happens when we miss something while we are looking at the ball? I thought the original post was a 3-person game and the 3 was taken in the C's primary. Isn't it a stretch for the L to see this? This happens all the time in a 2-person between the L and T for a good reason but between the L and C? It also happens all the time between the T and C in a 3-person game. That is a given the L has the paint! You know the area where they get the "rough play in the post" point of emphasis e v e r y year.
Things we discuss on this board is practice. You know everyone can hit a J in practice but when you have some live defense the percentages go down. Your mechanics in the mirror can be perfect but aren't going to be quite that good in a game. Plays work perfect on paper but don't work that well in a game. If we prepare to be mechanically perfect it will not happen in a game but we will be better than if we go in with the mindset that it is OK to be all over the place. Sort of like that shoot for the moon and you will still be among the stars mumbo jumbo.
I have to go to a game now.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by tomegun


Wow, now I know what it is like to be taken out of context!

I know what you were getting at, you wanted to discuss mechanics. I keep telling you I don't care about the mechanics, if you see something I did wrong that we agreed before hand can be corrected (and if we ever work together we will pregame this sitch) then I want you to fix it. That, to me, is more important than mechanics.

[tomegun]

Dan,

There are many players that can duplicate an And 1 tape but do not have a grasp of the fundamentals.

There are a lot of kids that have a basketball camp jump shot and can't function outside of a pick-and-roll system.

Then there are the kids that have a grasp of the fundamentals but also have the ability to isolate and bring the crowd to it's feet if need be.

In my officiating I want to be like the 3rd group of kids. Of course there are exceptions to the rules but I want my game to be fundamentally sound and I will adjust from there to get the plays right.

You look at it your way, I look at it my way and we will live happily ever after.

[JRutledge]

I think you should stop play immediately (I talk about this in my pregames) and correct it. Because you might not have another chance realistically to correct it if the play goes up and down the floor several times. If you signal to the table and do not stop play, you might confuse the table as to what to do and to which official to believe. And I think it is much better to do so, because the coach will not complain that you were doing anything to screw them. If you do it immediately, it is like a foul, they know right then what is done and can much easily accept your intervention.

Peace

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by tomegun
Dan,

There are many players that can duplicate an And 1 tape but do not have a grasp of the fundamentals.

There are a lot of kids that have a basketball camp jump shot and can't function outside of a pick-and-roll system.

Then there are the kids that have a grasp of the fundamentals but also have the ability to isolate and bring the crowd to it's feet if need be.

In my officiating I want to be like the 3rd group of kids. Of course there are exceptions to the rules but I want my game to be fundamentally sound and I will adjust from there to get the plays right.

You look at it your way, I look at it my way and we will live happily ever after.

Wha? In my officiating I don't want to be like ANY group of kids. I want to get it right. And I still find it interesting that in your many posts in this thread you never once agreed that our primary mission is to get the calls right. Why is that?