NCAA-W Interps

[ronny mulkey]

Jeffrey,

It is not about the table not informing you. It is about a free throw going on when it should not have. 2 officials have put the ball in play and the other is still trying to get the replacement in. Have you made the ball live because the lead began play or is the ball still dead because the trail was not ready.

You do NCAAW? Bob has listed the NCAAW interp. Is that what you are going to use in your High School game?

I know this is not going to happen in one of your games. So, pretend you are giving one of your clinics and this question comes up.

Mulk

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by ronny mulkey
Jeffrey,

It is not about the table not informing you. It is about a free throw going on when it should not have. 2 officials have put the ball in play and the other is still trying to get the replacement in. Have you made the ball live because the lead began play or is the ball still dead because the trail was not ready.

You do NCAAW? Bob has listed the NCAAW interp. Is that what you are going to use in your High School game?

I know this is not going to happen in one of your games. So, pretend you are giving one of your clinics and this question comes up.

Mulk

Yes I have done NCAAW for the past 3 years. And the rules to my knowledge is not any different between NCAAM and NCAAW on this specific issue. Unless you can give me a specific ruling, then we can work off of that.

Originally posted by ronny mulkey

I know this is not going to happen in one of your games. So, pretend you are giving one of your clinics and this question comes up.

Mulk

Mulk, Mulk, Mulk, Mulk, Mulk.

I am going to tell them the exact same thing I told you right now. I realize that is hard for you to understand, but this is preventable. And unless you are aware of some rule that I am not that suggests otherwise, that is what I am going to do. This is not a correctable error, this is mostly a table problem. We are not scorekeepers. We can only correct this situation if and when it happens. But to suggest that you cannot as the lead watch your partners and see that they are dealing with something, that is just irresponsible. If you look at the T in 3 person mechanics and his head is turned, you need to wait a second. No different if I am the new trail taking the ball out on the endline in the backcourt. Make eye contact and get some kind of confirmation that no subs are coming or there is nothing we need to wait on (injury, equiptment issues, fight in the stands). And in a throw in position you are much more spread out over the court. Why is that hard to do? Why does that have to be a problem? Dead ball officiating is one of the most important times in officiating. Not very hard to do as well.

Peace

[Dan_ref]

As much as we dislike each other and never get along ( ) I must agree with Rut on this. 2 man or 3 man or even 4, 5 or 6 man games if your partner is not where he should be and paying attention to you it is damn near unforgivable to put the ball in play. Ever. As the memo says this is a MAJOR error by the officials and leads to an absolutely preventable problem. Whether the FT goes in or misses it *does not count* and you will have 1 very unhappy coach no matter what you decide.

[ronny mulkey]

It is a major error by the officials. I've had it happen in my game and it is embarrassing. I've seen it happen on the college level. We don't have a large group, 50 officials or so, but it has happened already this year. Last year, it happened more than 5 times that we know about. It must have had happened at the NCAAW enough for them to issue an interp on how to handle.

I do see the glass half empty a lot of times but even excellent refs are not bullet proof. An inexperienced partner can put a ball in play without your approval and there is not a thing you can do to prevent it. Or, it can just be miscommunication between 3 good partners. "I thought you were looking right at me". "I thought the sub was already in and you were just over there flirting with the coach or table". One day you are going to end up at trail trying to get a sub in for a DQ'd player i.e. facing the table or the coach and the partner that is supposed to make "eye contact" before bouncing the ball to the shooter has only looked at your brown eye.

At least, if it does happen, you'll know what to do.

[Bart Tyson]

SSooo, does this mean, whenever there is a "Major error" by the officials, we do a do-over. Hmmm, six players on the court for a coulpe trips, MY fault, DO-OVER. Oops, That would be a Major error on my part.

[ronny mulkey]

Bart,

Finally, someone has hit the nail on the head. You do NCAAW don't you? They have given their interp. It sounds like a do over to me in their games. Does that apply to NFHS?

Mulk

[Bart Tyson]

As far as I'm concerned, in HS games, its not correctable. The basket counts, the rebound counts and anything else counts unless its correctable error. But, I don't do much HS, so hopefully this won't hapen. Knock on wood.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by ronny mulkey


I do see the glass half empty a lot of times but even excellent refs are not bullet proof. An inexperienced partner can put a ball in play without your approval and there is not a thing you can do to prevent it. Or, it can just be miscommunication between 3 good partners. "I thought you were looking right at me". "I thought the sub was already in and you were just over there flirting with the coach or table". One day you are going to end up at trail trying to get a sub in for a DQ'd player i.e. facing the table or the coach and the partner that is supposed to make "eye contact" before bouncing the ball to the shooter has only looked at your brown eye.

At least, if it does happen, you'll know what to do.

Have you guys ever heard of the stop sign? Seriously, have you ever looked at the table as the lead and then counted the players (which is your responsibility too btw)? Who is on the court is everyone's responsibility. You cannot pass that off on one official. No wonder it keeps happening, the attitude that you are displaying here is suggestive that you "pass the buck" off on your partners. I cannot even remember when this happen to me it has been so long ago. That is rookie stuff. When you are the lead, you should look at the table. Look at your partner that called the foul. Make sure you have the same foul situation that he/she has. If there is someone at the table, you point to the table or gesture in a way that lets your partner know there is someone there. If he realizes someone is there and that person is waiting on the second shot or the shooter, he should make not only eye contact, but open his mouth. Ten seconds or less have gone by. And if there are subs coming in, quickly count yourself, do not rely on your partners. That is so rountine, it does not happen. The Center and the Trail official should both be aware of the substitutes and give the Lead the "stop sign" to make sure he/she does not administer the FT before everyone is ready. I understand this can happen, but it is extreamely preventable. And I can tell you this. If you are being evaluated and someone see this, you all are going down in flames. This is not just one officials problem.

Peace

[Bart Tyson]

Rut, I agree it is preventable. Its been years since it happened with me. Like many mistakes, this happens because we loose our focus. We are thinking about a previous play or we are watching a couple of players and just going through the motions. My point is, this obviously has happened to some very good officials or the NCAA wouldn't be addressing it. I don't care how good you think you are, sometimes ***t happens and you screw up.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
Rut, I agree it is preventable. Its been years since it happened with me. Like many mistakes, this happens because we loose our focus. We are thinking about a previous play or we are watching a couple of players and just going through the motions. My point is, this obviously has happened to some very good officials or the NCAA wouldn't be addressing it. I don't care how good you think you are, sometimes ***t happens and you screw up.

Do not get caught up in what Ron is trying to say. Of course it happens to officials. But most officials will not say they should have not made that mistake. And it is still classified as a "rookie mistake" in many official's eyes. And yes, veterans make "rookie mistakes." I understand what you think, but it is still a very preventable situation. And to try to act like it is not, is just not good in my eyes. Because if you just pass it off as a "mistake" all the time, then you might justify it when it happens. I have made many mistakes in my career when I am on the court, I just to do justify them and say, "oh well." Dammit, it just should not happen.

Peace

[Bart Tyson]

OK Rut, I concur.

[ronny mulkey]

Rut,

. I am a lot better official because I have started play with more than 5 players. I am a lot better official because I have lined up the players on the wrong blocks on the free throw. I am a lot better official because I have had blarges in my games. I am a lot better official because I have started an O.T. going the wrong way. I am a lot better official because this DQ situation has happened to me. As the old boy down here told me "Mulk, I tried oral sex on a guy one time and I didn't like it. So, I know I am not homosexual. Then he said that if you hadn't tried it, you might be and not know it? My point is, I did not like those embarrassing moments and I do try hard not to repeat them. What does Mick say - Live and learn. And, I have lived a lot.

But, whatever it is they are teaching us down here, it ain't working. I guess we just have to work harder at it down here than they do up in Chicago. By the way, where is Bob Jenkins from? :>)

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by ronny mulkey
But, whatever it is they are teaching us down here, it ain't working. I guess we just have to work harder at it down here than they do up in Chicago. By the way, where is Bob Jenkins from? :>)

I worked with Bob earlier this month, it did not happen in our game. I have done probably 20 college games (Men's and Women's), it has never happen there. I work in a conference where I can assign the officials to my crew, never happen in my game (worked together for 3 years, only working 3 games a year). I have worked with a guy downstate, specifically in Galesburg, Illinois, I usually have done at the very least 15 games a year for about 5 years with him, never happen in our games. I have worked with many more guys than Bob (this year alone), it has not happen this year in any other games.

This is way more preventable than a blarge. At least a blarge you can get screened and not hear your partner's whistle. In an effort to sell the call you just signal without seeing or hearing your partner. Ask me how many times that has happen to me? You have nothing but time and opportunity to prevent this from happening. What is the freakin hurry to put the ball in play? You have somewhere to go? You have a hot date? You start losing your check for each second the clock is not running? What is the rush?

Peace

[ronny mulkey]

Rut,

Read an earlier post by Bob. Twice already this year? When you see him, ask him how it happened. I saw this DQ situation happen to a D1 official one night.

This will be my last post on this unless you want to take this offline, but i do want to say that in a 3 person crew, you only make up .3333 of that crew.

Mulk

[JRutledge]

Ron,

Why don't you ask him? It happen to him not me.

Peace