White Coaches, Black Referee

[Woodee]

Originally posted by Woodee
Last night I had to T up two Asst Coaches trying to be Bobby Knight. In both instances the coaches jumped off the bench and yelled at the top of their lungs at my partner.

Well, when I got home I was telling my 17 year old son (who plays HS B-Ball) what happened and he said "Dad I know they didn't yell at you". I replied no, but why do you say that and he asks "were they White Coaches", I said yes, "with White players" I say yes "and was your partner White" I say yes, my son ended, "they are not going to yell and scream at a Black Referee because they are afraid of how you might react". It made me think for a minute and you know, noone has yelled or screamed in my face, YET!

Since I'm new to officiating is this somewhat true?

I think my son's view is that these Coaches are not use to being around Blacks (especially yelling at an adult Black), therefore they don't know what to expect other than what they see, hear or read about Blacks, which is sometimes negative.

I asked two of my mentors both Blacks with 20 + yrs experience and one said "he never thought about it before, but quickly trying to remember he said "NOONE has ever pulled a Bobby Knight on him". The other person said "it was because I did a good job and thats why they didn't yell at me". He also mentioned that when I do this longer I will eventually get it.


The purpose for this thread was to make us think about it.


Personally if a Coach is afraid of me because of my race, well SHAME on him or her.


Please keep in mind I don't want any Coach yelling at me. I carry a 9 millimeter!

Good discussions!

[BK]

Another satisfied CMG user!!!

Uh, mick, we could use a moderator...ahem...a referee right about now!!!

[ronny mulkey]

I realize that I am not the smartest person and I do get easily confused but was it not you that responded to basketball ref by pointing out that "we" don't get but 1 school out of 12 implying that it is because "we" are black. I have no problem with you saying that or believing that. But, I do have a problem when you bragging over and over about your schedule. I guess you mean that it would be even better if you were white?

Either the games are based on ability (which you point out over and over) or they are based on some something else. Which is it?

[canuckrefguy]

Originally posted by Woodee
I think my son's view is that these Coaches are not use to being around Blacks (especially yelling at an adult Black), therefore they don't know what to expect other than what they see, hear or read about Blacks, which is sometimes negative.

Wow.

That's all I got to say on that one.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by ronny mulkey
I have no problem with you saying that or believing that. But, I do have a problem when you bragging over and over about your schedule. I guess you mean that it would be even better if you were white?

I am not going to play your little pity game. But if you were not so eager to try to put someone down that does not agree with you, you might not have been offended. I understand what works for me, works for me. I do not try to do what folks in Atlanta do, because you say so. Sorry, that did not get me where I am now or is not going to get me where I want to be.

Originally posted by ronny mulkey

Either the games are based on ability (which you point out over and over) or they are based on some something else. Which is it?

Maybe you need a life lesson. Achievement is based on talent, color, who you know, who you do not know, who you associate yourself with, what you do, what you wear, who you have talked to, what your experience is, what you say, what you do not say, who you say what to and do you stay out of trouble. And that is just half the story. Some have more weight than others. Some might make or break you. But all factor in.

Happy hunting.

Peace

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by ronny mulkey
I realize that I am not the smartest person and I do get easily confused but was it not you that responded to basketball ref by pointing out that "we" don't get but 1 school out of 12 implying that it is because "we" are black. I have no problem with you saying that or believing that. But, I do have a problem when you bragging over and over about your schedule. I guess you mean that it would be even better if you were white?

Either the games are based on ability (which you point out over and over) or they are based on some something else. Which is it?

There's no way it's that simple, Ron. Where Jeff works, each AD at each school hires his or her own refs for home games. They don't have one assignor who dishes out the games how he sees fit. So some of Jeff's games are worked on the basis of ability (probably many, since I suspect he's a very good ref), and others are not given based on race -- it will depend on the school, the background and current emotional state of each AD, and the general tenor of the population at each individual game site. Furthermore, even people who really like Jeff's work may be under pressure from others to either hire more or less people of color, depending on THAT person's background, etc. The whole racial discrimination issue is so enormously complicated that it really isn't very fair to limit Jeff to only two possibilities -- either this or that.

[mick]

Originally posted by BK
Another satisfied CMG user!!!

Uh, mick, we could use a moderator...ahem...a referee right about now!!!

YU.P.

[Rich]

The problem is in the assigning method, as far as I'm concerned.

Everywhere else I've lived the officials association acts as a buffer, gets the game contracts, and assigns officials. In the best run places, coaches didn't even have redlining or scratching capabilities. The games were evenly distributed amongst the varsity-quality officials and officials NEVER had to call schools and ask them if they can get scheduled.

Why someone gets or doesn't get assigned certain games is a complicated matter. When I lived in a big city with a large African-American population, I had a hard time getting assigned to the best basketball schools, which were highly African-American. Is this any better or any different than Jeff not getting assignments at certain schools? I don't know. I know that I was just as good on the floor as those officials and occasionally did get to prove it. But it wasn't a coincidence that all-White crews were sent to mostly White schools and vice-versa.

Right now I'm having mixed success where I live, where the assignments are handled in the same fashion as in Illinois -- I am able to get a lot of assignments in some conferences and can't even get the courtesy of a reply from the commissioner of other conferences -- conferences where I've watched officials work who I felt were of lesser quality than myself and my regualr partner. What's our problem? We're TRANSFER officials, only 2 years in the area.

But there's a bright side to all this -- I may have to drive farther to my games (90 miles one way tomorrow night -- don't gasp, we get paid for mileage) but I do control my own schedule. And because of that, I am able to go to places where I know we're appreciated because in very rural areas there aren't many or any good officials. And when I get tired of driving that far, I'll have to decide whether to continue doing this or hope I'm able to break into some of the closer conferences.

[JRutledge]

I work for about 9 give or take different assignors. I used to live in an area where you get games only by the AD. I still do a few games a year at some of those schools. But now I live in an area that most, if not all the conferences assign the games thru and assignor. The best way I can explain it is like the NCAA Conferences. Each conference has their own assignment chairperson and has its own concerns. The best way to get assigned in each conference is to be seen by the assignement person or to have the right person recommend you. One of them assigns crews for his games. So I can bring who I want to when he assigns me for the most part. Rich happens to work for one of them as well.

Two of the assignment people that I work for made a point to me to hire more African-American officials for their conferences. Mainly because their suburban schools had some mostly Black schools and the coaches wanted to see more Black official in those conferences.

But everything that Juulie said and Rich said was right on. I just wanted to clarify that I am not doing games that are assigned by only schools and AD. But I have and that does bring a different level of challenges. And that story that I was referencing, happen to be a school that normally assigned their own officials. But the game this Pricipal was trying to scratch me from was assigned by another school for a conference tournament. It just happen to be hosted by the school of this Principal.

Peace

[Rich]

All of our conferences assign by crews where I live. In WI we work 2-official crews and I could literally choose to work every game with the same official all season long. But we all have some personal conflicts throughout the year and openings come up, so in the end I'll probably work with 5 or 6 people before the season is over.

I do work boys varsity games in Illinois for 2 conferences and those games are assigned to crews. One of the crews that I work on for one of those conferences consists of 3 officials that drive down from WI to work. So I have a shirt with a patch for those games and we drive down in one car -- sometimes quite a shorter distance than we drive for games in our "own" state. But I love the different style of basketball and I love working 3-official mechanics.

-------------

Frankly, the coaches and the ADs wield a lot of power where I am. That works to my advantage most of the time as I've received more positive feedback from coaches and ADs than anything else. But it has also caused some interesting things to happen.

Last season I was working a varsity boys game WAY out in the sticks. At least 90-100 miles from home. Visiting assistant coach comes out on the floor to complain about a non-call during a live ball and my partner (rightly) whacks him.

As I'm calmly and professionally seating the head coach he makes a comment about how we just lost a school. I was stunned at the blatant nature of the comment, so much so that I neglected to call the flagrant technical he deserved for it.

Some coaches aren't very smart in some regards, though. He may control HIS home schedule, but most teams do play road games and I notice he's on my schedule twice in February. It won't affect anything, but my smile will be a bit bigger than usual when we greet him before the game.

[Edited by Rich Fronheiser on Jan 8th, 2004 at 11:51 PM]

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Some coaches aren't very smart in some regards, though. He may control HIS home schedule, but most teams do play road games and I notice he's on my schedule twice in February. It won't affect anything, but my smile will be a bit bigger than usual when we greet him before the game.

Just like a lot of people play the "race card," a lot of coaches play the "you'll never work here again card."

"Hey, 100 miles away in the dead of winter! Please, please coach, mark me off! But before I go, take this with you! WHACK!!"

Oh dear, I bet that gets BBallCoach going again!

[Rich]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Just like a lot of people play the "race card," a lot of coaches play the "you'll never work here again card."

"Hey, 100 miles away in the dead of winter! Please, please coach, mark me off! But before I go, take this with you! WHACK!!"

Oh dear, I bet that gets BBallCoach going again!

Unfortunately, he will start a new thread in the process.

To be honest, we had a good laugh on the way home using just about the same words you did. I just mapped it, BTW -- it is 115 miles one way to his school. We weren't actually at his school and haven't ever been -- they were the visiting team and we were probably about 40 miles closer at the time. My personal limit for a regular season game is about 90 miles, BTW. Unless I'm not the one driving

[Woodee]

Originally posted by canuckrefguy

Wow.

That's all I got to say on that one.

This might sound bad, but it isn't meant to be, its reality.

My son has been raised in an enviroment just as he described so he knows. He is a military brat and all of his friends are White, so he has heard somethings.


He is a good kid!


BTW,

The Coaches were very, very apologetic after the T's.

[ronny mulkey]

Rainmaker,

Great post. Very articulate. I am just so tired of hearing about Rut's schedule that I cannot be objective anymore when it comes to games he gets or does not get. It's like it don't matter what is in the rulebook or it doesn't matter what others' opinion are on a topic, ACA is all that matters. When he is on TV and doing D1 ballplayers out the ying yang, it is because of how good he is. When the system lets him down, it is because he is black.

But, sure can't say anything negative about your post. Could you send it to my email address so that I can save it.

Mulk

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by ronny mulkey
Rainmaker,

Great post. Very articulate. I am just so tired of hearing about Rut's schedule that I cannot be objective anymore when it comes to games he gets or does not get. It's like it don't matter what is in the rulebook or it doesn't matter what others' opinion are on a topic, ACA is all that matters. When he is on TV and doing D1 ballplayers out the ying yang, it is because of how good he is. When the system lets him down, it is because he is black.

But, sure can't say anything negative about your post. Could you send it to my email address so that I can save it.

Mulk

Ron, you can use your browser's edit function to copy and paste anything off this board into a word process-able document.

I understand your annoyance with Jeff. He views this board as a group of friends swapping yarns, and not so much of a public arena. So to someone who feels more like a spectator, he might look a little vain, I suppose. If you can look past some of his gruff exterior you will find a wealth of reffing wisdom which can be applied to many different situations, along with a little of the crotchety arrogance that we all need at times in order to do a good job on the floor. Occasionally, he loses his temper about race issues, but then we all have our buttons, don't we? It's just a shame when we lose it with each other instead of saving the righteous indignation for those that really deserve it, namely anyone besides the refs!