When do you assess the T?

[ref18]

Here's the situation, Team A's coach doesn't know all the numbers of his team members. He fills out the scoresheet, and leaves the sport for 2 number blank. The coach tells you he's expecting both players to show up and play, and asks you how many t's he's gonna get for changing the scoresheetfor 2 players. Now both players show up. Is the technical foul assessed when the team members without numbers in the scorebook become players, or is the foul assessed when the team member's numbers are added to the scorebook?

[JRutledge]

These would be an Administrative T. So the Team gets one T and no more for the book being wrong. The foul counts toward the bonus as well.

Peace

[Hawks Coach]

If the game has started, you would administer the T the first time the scorebook is altered. The scorer should not agree to alter the scorebook until there is a stoppage, they should notify the ref, the change should be made, and the T assessed. A smart coach would at least wait until a dead ball where his opponent was getting the ball to do this

[ref18]

So just for clarification, the T is given at the point of the scorebook being altered. Right??

[Hawks Coach]

Yes - but only the first time the book is altered. All further alterations are freebies, although your unsolicited glares for ongoing book issues are not considered an official penalty

[BktBallRef]

The technical is issued because the name and number of each player has not been supplied to the scorer at least 10 minutes before the scheduled starting time. (10-1-1)

When the players arrive, I would allow him to put the numbers in the book.

If he then has to make a change in the book, after the 10 minute mark, such as changing another player's name, it would be a T. (10-1-2)

10-1-1 and 10-1-2 are separate issues and one T can be issued for each rule.

[Hawks Coach]

BBallref
I don't really think I am missing something here. This is not likely an HS game. It is most likely a rec game where names and numbers are never supplied until the game before just ended. A HS coach has a manager that has all the info and gets the book right. This situation is a coach with players who aren't there and no clue what their numbers are. The 10 minute rule never applies in these leagues. Most times you are watching the coach fill out the book hoping they will hurry up so you can start the game.

So the T is for changing the book after the game starts. I would never expect to see a T in these kind of games before the tip-off. And I hope (and sincerely believe) that the 10-minute rule wasn't the rule he is trying to enforce.

[BktBallRef]

Coach, I'm not concerned with whether it's a rec game or a HS game. I'm answering the question based on what the rule is. If ref18 wants to elaborate and discuss what you might do in a more "liberal situation," then I'll certainly reply. But by rule, my answer is correct.

[Hawks Coach]

It isn't a question of a more liberal situation. It is a question of one gym, one book, game in progress, and names/numbers get put in the book immediately following game, immediately preceding next game. Warm-ups are 3-5 minutes - that's when the book is being filled out. This isn't a failure to follow the rules, it's a league that hasn't ever imagined using a 10-minute rule.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Coach, I'm not concerned with whether it's a rec game or a HS game. I'm answering the question based on what the rule is. If ref18 wants to elaborate and discuss what you might do in a more "liberal situation," then I'll certainly reply. But by rule, my answer is correct.

I had a juco game the other night, 14 visitors warming up, 13 visitors in the book at 11:00. By the time I got the visitors assistant to say "Wait! I know! We picked up a new player to replace one of our ineligibles!" (gotta love the junior colleges ) the coach had taken his team off for their pregame locker room meeting. So at 9:30 the kid's name went in the book, at about 5 minutes when they came back onto the floor his number went in the book & we started the game without freethrows.

And my streak remains alive...

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
It isn't a question of a more liberal situation. It is a question of one gym, one book, game in progress, and names/numbers get put in the book immediately following game, immediately preceding next game. Warm-ups are 3-5 minutes - that's when the book is being filled out. This isn't a failure to follow the rules, it's a league that hasn't ever imagined using a 10-minute rule.

Without regard to that, the rule would require that the T come before the game started. If there's a name in the book, there's a number or we start the game with a T, even if the 10 min. requirement isn't followed.

Originally posted by Dan_ref

I had a juco game the other night, 14 visitors warming up, 13 visitors in the book at 11:00. By the time I got the visitors assistant to say "Wait! I know! We picked up a new player to replace one of our ineligibles!" (gotta love the junior colleges ) the coach had taken his team off for their pregame locker room meeting. So at 9:30 the kid's name went in the book, at about 5 minutes when they came back onto the floor his number went in the book & we started the game without freethrows.

And my streak remains alive...

And that's fine. I had a rookie coach on Monday night he didn't know the roster had to be submitted by the 10 min. mark. He filled it out, I signed off at the 7 min. mark and all was fine.

But in the situation we're discussing, the coach did not have the numbers available until the players arrived. Therefore, if he's going to put the names in the book before the game, then the T for no numbers happens before the game.

If he wants to wait until the players, who may or may not show, arrive, then he can put the names and the numbers in at that time and we can assess the T then. But if he wants the names in the book before the game, then we have a T if he doesn't have the numbers.

Personally, I don't care which he does but it will effect when the T is administered.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Dec 3rd, 2003 at 07:18 PM]

[Hawks Coach]

NOW I understand where you are coming from. You are givign the T at the outset for not having the numbers with the names. n that case, a smart coach again waits until the players arive (who knows if they will!) and adds them at the next dead ball where his opponents get it.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
NOW I understand where you are coming from. You are givign the T at the outset for not having the numbers with the names. n that case, a smart coach again waits until the players arive (who knows if they will!) and adds them at the next dead ball where his opponents get it.

HELLO!! MCFLY!!!

Thank you! I was wondering why I wasn't getting through.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
And my streak remains alive...

Mine ended last season b/c the visiting team used different jersey numbers for their home games. So the coach put the home numbers in the book, and the girls came out in their away uniforms, of course.

So the scorer dutifully notifies the home coach, and they both call me over. Sigh. Gotta change 'em. Gotta give the T. First time I ever started a game with a T.

[Stan]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

So the scorer dutifully notifies the home coach, and they both call me over. Sigh. Gotta change 'em. Gotta give the T. First time I ever started a game with a T. [/B]

You didn't let this one end in OT did you? That would be a double whamy!