sideline charge vs. block

[buddys]

How can a referee make a call and if a player has his foot on the line is the offensive player at liberty to run his *** over?

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by buddys
How can a referee make a call

By blowing the whistle and raising a fist.

and if a player has his foot on the line is the offensive player at liberty to run his *** over?

No.

[oc]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

By blowing the whistle and raising a fist.

No.

I thought the new interpretation that was discussed at great length said they could.

[BigDave]

Originally posted by buddys
How can a referee make a call and if a player has his foot on the line is the offensive player at liberty to run his *** over?

With the new rule, the offensive player can plow him and it is always a block.

[lawref]

Yep. You can't establish legal guarding position with one foot out of bounds. New NFHS rule this year.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by BigDave
With the new rule, the offensive player can plow him and it is always a block.

I don't have this year's rulebook yet, but I'm pretty sure it's not automatically a block - we can still pass on the call if no advantage is gained by the offense, right?

[BigDave]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

I don't have this year's rulebook yet, but I'm pretty sure it's not automatically a block - we can still pass on the call if no advantage is gained by the offense, right?

The original post said if he "runs his *** over". I'd call that an advantage.

[Rich]

No rule or interpretation allows another player to flagrantly contact another player. Run his a$$ over implies flagrant, at least in certain contexts.

A normal block/charge situation? Yes, it is always a block, unless you are one of the handful of people here who call the rules however they see fit.

[tomegun]

One other thing that has been brought up in two meetings that I went to this week is the 5 second call. If the defender start to guard the offensive player while he/she is out of bounds or is guarding the offensive player and steps out of bounds there is no 5 second count.

I hope the coaches are telling the kids to keep it in between the lines.

[capwsu]

Originally posted by tomegun
One other thing that has been brought up in two meetings that I went to this week is the 5 second call. If the defender start to guard the offensive player while he/she is out of bounds or is guarding the offensive player and steps out of bounds there is no 5 second count.

I hope the coaches are telling the kids to keep it in between the lines.

Thanks for bringing up this scenario. In all of the discussions on legal gaurding position, the thought of a 5 second call never crossed my mind. I'm glad you brought that to my attention and cleared up any questions.

[monkeyking]

The key word here is "establish"! After the defense has established a legal gaurding position with their torso facing the opponent(4-23-2a,b), they are not required to have either of both feet on the plating court or continue facing the opponent. We also had this discucion and came up with most of the players on the court have already established a legal gaurding position just by being on the court and near an opponent. If the offense has beaten them past and then they block it is that, but if the offense is going straight through them I would Mostly call that an offensive charge.

[cmathews]

monkeyking,
with regard to not having feet on the floor IE lifted off of the floor I agree, however, they may not place the foot out of bounds...it is on the NHFS website as a new interpretation...

[ChuckElias]

monkey,

Check out http://www.nfhs.org/sports/basketball_interp.htm Look at situation #7, I think.

Also, look back at these thread from a couple weeks ago:

http://www.officialforum.com/thread/10731
http://www.officialforum.com/thread/10735

Hope it helps.

[Rich]

Originally posted by monkeyking
The key word here is "establish"! After the defense has established a legal gaurding position with their torso facing the opponent(4-23-2a,b), they are not required to have either of both feet on the plating court or continue facing the opponent. We also had this discucion and came up with most of the players on the court have already established a legal gaurding position just by being on the court and near an opponent. If the offense has beaten them past and then they block it is that, but if the offense is going straight through them I would Mostly call that an offensive charge.

This was the way it was seen by most officials last season. But this season the NFHS decided that the defender must have inbounds status to maintain legal guarding position.

Read here:

http://nfhs.org/Sports/basketball_4-23_clarified.html

Rich

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by BigDave

With the new rule, the offensive player can plow him and it is always a block.

Originally posted by lawref
Yep. You can't establish legal guarding position with one foot out of bounds. New NFHS rule this year.

All the new rule says is that the player can not have LGP if they are OOB. It doesn't say it is automaticaly a block for being being contacted while OOB.

In situation #7 the defender is moving at the time of contact. Since they do not have LGP by virtue of being OOB, it is a block for moving at the time of contact.

However, a fully stationary opponent can always draw a PC foul even if they are not in LGP. For example, A1 fakes a 3-point shot from the top of the key. B5, who is in the middle of the lane, bites and turns for the rebound. A1 drives down the lane right up the back of a stationary B5 and knocks B5 over. B5 never had LGP but A1 still commited a player control foul.

So, A1 does NOT have free reign to run someone over just because they are not in LGP (out-of-bounds or inbounds). The impact is that B1 is not in LGP when OOB and, as a result, does not ave the right to verticality or to be moving laterally or obliquely when contact occurs.

Let's not overstate this new rule and create another myth.