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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 13, 2000, 03:17am
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In my post i said i like to try and let the teams set the flow or tempo of the game. I work hard at trying to talk them out of a few fouls, but by no means am i swallowing my whistle. I don't go out on the court to give a clinic in blowing the whistle ether. If the players are not going to respond to "preventive" officating then the whistle will get a work out when fouls accur.

I still believe our job is to prevent unnecessary game interuptions. I also believe the best compliment that a coach, fan or player can say is "who were those referee's tonight".

Good Luck
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 13, 2000, 09:05am
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Quote:
Originally posted by vhslref
This year they are giving the defender one-touch to size-up or measure-up the offense. (This is in a non-dribbling situation.) Once the offense has begin to dribble, any hand that is on the dribbler for more than two dribbles should be called. On post-play: the defense may use a forearm on the offense, but they must have palm down or closed fist. Two of anything ( arm and leg or knee, two hands) must be called.
There is a difference, really, between the men's and women's games. While the men's game may permit at least some discretion and "preventative" efforts by the officials, the women's game is much less tolerant. The guidelines are spelled out so specifically, that there is little to no room left for discretion: either there was a handcheck, or there wasn't. After the initial "measuring for distance," there can be no open hand placed on the ball-handler/dribbler. However, an occasional FOREARM is permitted, as long as it is not sustained. The guidelines are equally spelled out re: post play. And, BTW, as of this year the defensive post player MAY have a leg AND an arm or hand on the offensive player--but not two hands, forearms, or one of each. I'm not real thrilled with that degree of specificity, but that's how they want the game called. And believe me, that's how it IS being called, from what I've seen.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 13, 2000, 09:50am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alaska Ref
In my post i said i like to try and let the teams set the flow or tempo of the game. I work hard at trying to talk them out of a few fouls, but by no means am i swallowing my whistle. I don't go out on the court to give a clinic in blowing the whistle ether. If the players are not going to respond to "preventive" officating then the whistle will get a work out when fouls accur.

I still believe our job is to prevent unnecessary game interuptions. I also believe the best compliment that a coach, fan or player can say is "who were those referee's tonight".

Good Luck
Don, I agree with your attitude of talking to the players,
and I will warn if I see them in a sitch that might lead
to me using my whistle (press in backcourt, low post
match-up, etc). It is better to say "watch hands"
or "off his back" than it is to disrupt the flow. My only
point was in the first 2 minutes when you set the tone
it's got to also be set with the coaches & bench folks
(and to a much lesser degree the yahoos in the stands).
Warning does not do this, IMO.

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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 13, 2000, 09:52am
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Don,
I prefer to make the call in the first 2 minutes
rather than warning. I think it sets a much better tone
for making the tough calls later on in the game,
particularly with rough play and hand check type things.

-Dan

What do you do after the first 2 minutes? I agree about calling fouls, but after that why change. Once you call something you have to continue to call it that way or you are in trouble. Make the first fouls real fouls and watch out for calling things that are boarderline. I really do not like the terminology tight and loose. It is a foul because of advantange/disadvantage or it is nothing.
Dan didn't say he stopped calling it after two minutes. He said he preferred to make the call in the first two minutes rather than warning the team. If he calls it in the first two minutes, then that's telling the kids he's going to call it like that all night. [/B]
Took the words right out of my mouth!

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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 13, 2000, 01:15pm
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NCAA Women - Post Play

The June 1, 2000 letter on points of emphasis (NCAA Womens) says "The defender may not place two hands, two forearms, a forearm and hand or a leg and hand".

The NCAA Rulebook (Page 16 Paragraph [a.] under POE for Women) says "A forearm and leg or a hand and leg may be placed on the offensive player as long as there is no displacement".

The two are inconsistent with regard to the defender placing a leg plus a hand.

Does anyone know of an interim document explaining the difference?
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 13, 2000, 01:38pm
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I am not saying not to blow the whistle. But I am not going to treat the first 2 minutes any different than the last two minutes. I just believe that you make your first foul a good one and make sure that is what you want to call the entire game. If you call something that is not a foul at the beginning trying to send a message, you might have problems if make that call later. As I have said before, I believe in fouls and not fouls, not tight and loose. And depending on the talent of the players, that might mean different things.

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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 13, 2000, 09:46pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
I am not saying not to blow the whistle. But I am not going to treat the first 2 minutes any different than the last two minutes. I just believe that you make your first foul a good one and make sure that is what you want to call the entire game. If you call something that is not a foul at the beginning trying to send a message, you might have problems if make that call later. As I have said before, I believe in fouls and not fouls, not tight and loose. And depending on the talent of the players, that might mean different things.

Who said that you should be calling a non-foul a foul?
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 13, 2000, 11:38pm
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Exclamation IMHO

If you arbitrarily call fouls in the two minutes that you would not call any other time just to set the tone, you are going to have some fouls being called that are thought to be non-fouls whether you like it or no. What I am saying is that you might not need to call anything in the first couple minutes. I feel that it is especially important to have the first foul a good one, if not, do not call it.


Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
I am not saying not to blow the whistle. But I am not going to treat the first 2 minutes any different than the last two minutes. I just believe that you make your first foul a good one and make sure that is what you want to call the entire game. If you call something that is not a foul at the beginning trying to send a message, you might have problems if make that call later. As I have said before, I believe in fouls and not fouls, not tight and loose. And depending on the talent of the players, that might mean different things.

Who said that you should be calling a non-foul a foul?
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 13, 2000, 11:53pm
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From the NCAA mens video.
1. Call early
2. Call Consistantly
3. Keeping a hand on the opponent
4. Two hands on an opponent.
5. Continually jabbing an opponent.
5. Controlling movement.
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