Do you call a 2nd foul?

[Zoochy]

A1 drives to the basket. A1 grabs the ball with 2 hands (controls the ball).
A1 takes a step. B1 reaches and fouls A1 across the arms. The C official blows the whistle. B2 has obtained Legal Guarding Position on A1. A1 continues the drive to the basket. A1 goes airborne.
1) A1 releases the ball for a try, then creates torso/torso contact on B2. Both A1 & B2 go to the ground. The ball goes in the basket
2) A1 creates torso/torso contact on B2 then releases the ball for a try. Both A1 & B2 go to the ground. The ball goes in the basket
Should the Lead official blow the whistle and call a PC foul on A1? If so what is the ruling procedure?

[SNIPERBBB]

"continues to drive"? what does that mean? if thats more than another step, we're ignoring the second foul unless a1 punches b1 or something similar.even if the A1 doesnt take another step, most likely ignoring the second foul unless its egregious.

[BillyMac]

Nice question Zoochy.

False double foul?

Wave off the basket and give the shooter two free throws?

Personal fouls on both A1 and B1?

Team fouls for both Team A and Team B?

Probably technical fouls on both Head Coach A and Head Coach B?

Maybe tossing Head Coach A and Head Coach B?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

Do you call a 2nd foul?

You have to.

No choice in the situation.

It's a live ball (continuous motion) up to and including the player control foul contact after which the ball then becomes dead.

You can't ignore the second foul!

All live ball contact personal fouls, no dead ball contact intentional or flagrant technical fouls.

[Zoochy]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Nice question Zoochy.

False double foul?

Wave off the basket and give the shooter two free throws?

Personal fouls on both A1 and B1?

Team fouls for both Team A and Team B?

Probably technical fouls on both Head Coach A and Head Coach B?

Maybe tossing Head Coach A and Head Coach B?

===
How would you administrate the Free Throws? Line up or don't line up? How do you proceed after the last Free Throw?

[SNIPERBBB]

If you go the false double route, shoot the FTs with noone alone the lane and award the ensuing throw in to B.

[Raymond]

Isn't there a case played that addresses this situation?

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[SNIPERBBB]

theres an older case play thats not in the book, heres a thread on it

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...uble-foul.html

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

theres an older case play thats not in the book, heres a thread on it

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...uble-foul.html

And I don't think anything has changed in the last 16 years that nullifies or contradicts that ruling.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Isn't there a case played that addresses this situation?

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

There's an older case play that's not in the book, here's a thread on it https://forum.officiating.com/basket...uble-foul.html

Nice job guys.

Originally Posted by jc147119

The lane is cleared and after the two shots, Team B will be awarded the ball back at the end line - either with the ability to run the end line (if the second shot was successful) or with a spot throw in if the second free throw misses.

Great case play thread.

I would be interested in further discussion about "players are knocked into another player".

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Nice job guys.



Great case play thread.

I would be interested in further discussion about "players are knocked into another player".

My 20 years on the court, never had a play that was even close enough that I would have to consider such a decision. It's why we should have a patient whistle on plays to the basket.

It would have to be so obvious that the offensive player was committing a foul as a separate act that it would damn near have to be ruled intentional.


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[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I have a true confession to make.

1) I have watched, played, and officiated basketball for 65 years and I have never seen this happen in a game. That is not to say that it has not happened and I suspect it happens more often than we think, I would bet dollars to donuts that it does. That said ...

2) I would not hesitate to enforce this Play per the Case Book, in fact I would recognize as soon as I saw the Play.

MTD, Sr.

[SNIPERBBB]

ive seen a few times over my 20+ where a defender is setup for a charge but another player comes in and fouls the dribbler and the dribbler bounced into the LGP defender.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

... where a defender is setup for a charge but another player comes in and fouls the dribbler and the dribbler bounced into the LGP defender.

Never observed it but agree that it is a distinct possibility in a real game situation.

If the official is 100% certain that the player control foul would not have occurred without an unintentional push as part of the defensive foul on the ball handler, can the player control foul be overlooked after a discussion between the officials?

Rule 2-3 (Referee’s Authority): "The referee shall make decisions on any points not specifically covered in the rules."

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I suspect it happens more often than we think, I would bet dollars to donuts that it does.

We've got some knuckleheads that don't know a false double foul from a ham sandwich.