2024-25 NFHS Rules Changes

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

All of that stuff could have been said regarding college ball but now they are allowed ... there are far more dunks in the same gym, outside of a game, and the number of equipment failures is a few.

Few, sure I'll agree with that, but not never.

While I personally don't agree much with the sportsmanship issue (obviously many others did), I still contend that it will be a lot easier to get the rim repaired, or replaced before (or during) an intercollegiate game, or a professional game, then before (or during) an interscholastic game.

I don't care about dunks and broken, or bent rims, in physical education classes, intramurals, or basketball practice, just dunks and broken, or bent rims, before (still illegal) and during (legal) my interscholastic game that night.

If the rim breaks, or is bent, in physical education classes the morning of my night game, and can't be repaired, or replaced, in a timely manner, I don't care, I'll get a call before my game telling me that my interscholastic game is postponed.

I do care very much if the rim breaks, or is bent, fifteen minutes before my interscholastic game, and can't be repaired, or replaced, that night.

I also care very much if the rim breaks, or is bent, during my interscholastic game, and can't be repaired, or replaced, that night, but it's legal and I have no control over that situation, except for a dead ball dunk, and in both cases, that would really piss me off.

Even if the rim could be repaired, or replaced, in a timely manner, I would probably still be too late to hang out with the guys at the local watering hole.

They're not going to wait for me to order.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Few, sure I'll agree with that, but not never.

While I personally don't agree much with the sportsmanship issue (obviously many others did), I still contend that it will be a lot easier to get the rim repaired, or replaced before (or during) an intercollegiate game, or a professional game, then before (or during) an interscholastic game.

I don't care about dunks and broken, or bent rims, in physical education classes, intramurals, or basketball practice, just dunks and broken, or bent rims, before (still illegal) and during (legal) my interscholastic game that night.

If the rim breaks, or is bent, in physical education classes the morning of my night game, and can't be repaired, or replaced, in a timely manner, I don't care, I'll get a call before my game telling me that my interscholastic game is postponed.

I do care very much if the rim breaks, or is bent, fifteen minutes before my interscholastic game, and can't be repaired, or replaced, that night.

I also care very much if the rim breaks, or is bent, during my interscholastic game, and can't be repaired, or replaced, that night, but it's legal and I have no control over that situation, except for a dead ball dunk, and in both cases, that would really piss me off.

Even if the rim could be repaired, or replaced, in a timely manner, I would probably still be too late to hang out with the guys at the local watering hole.

They're not going to wait for me to order.

Interesting...lots of use of the word "care." If it breaks, don't you still get paid? Game is done/rescheduled and you can get to the watering hole early.

I have had scoreboards/AP arrows/shot clocks/etc., all malfunction or not work, but have never experienced a broken rim, while officiating or playing.

Guess I have been lucky

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Let us make it clear, they took this rule from other levels. This was never a stated NF rule despite what people want to say. Nothing ever backed up the language that flopping the way described was to be penalized. Seems like they are even expanding what they feel is the rule or not the rule.

The other levels or at least NCAA Men's gave this a one-shot T and it was put in a category that rarely ejected a player. It was not a personal foul or went towards the 5 possible fouls a player could get. I think they tried to make the penalty for the act somewhat minor so we would call it. I know I am going to call it now. It will not be something a player will foul out on and I get to make a point while the team only loses the ball and gains points from the opponent. And it is only a T after a warning.

Peace

The rule, as written, was "Fake being fouled, attempt a free throw, or accept a foul that one is not entitled to". For some reason, the rules writers conflated "faking being fouled" with other infractions that abuse the foul calling and enforcement process. Because the rules writers failed to define what "faking being fouled" was, it forced officials to come up with their own interpretations. I thus defined faking being fouled as a player embellishing incidental contact or acting as if there was contact to draw a call (e.g. sitting down on a block/charge play).

Thankfully NFHS has cleaned this up this year.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

Interesting...lots of use of the word "care." If it breaks, don't you still get paid?

I wouldn't officiate for free, but I don't do it for the money.

I like working my games as scheduled, as do players, coaches, cheerleaders, table crew, police officer in the corner, press, photographers, and hundreds of fans.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

...have never experienced a broken rim, while officiating or playing.

I agree that it is rare, but when it does happen immediately before, or during, an interscholastic game, it's a big deal, at best, a very long wait, or at worst, a postponement.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

BillyMac - you probably enjoy https://basketballuniverse.io/dunkin...armups-exists/

That's only a part of the story. Here's the whole story.

The following is an excerpt from an article, “Who’s Trent Tucker? And Why Is There A Basketball Rule Named After Him?” that appeared in IAABO “Sportorials” magazine in May 2018.

When Lew Alcindor (Kareem Abdul Jabbar) (UCLA 1966-1969, NBA 1969-1989) started playing basketball for UCLA Bruins, NCAA officials felt that the seven foot, two inch All-American center, being especially tall and athletic, could place the ball over the rim and throw it through the hoop with ease. This feat of athleticism which we all know as the dunk, and seems so routine now, was not so routine back in the mid-1960’s. It was considered unfair that he could do it so easily. The dunk was seen as taboo among “purists,” it did not “display basketball skill, only height advantage,” against the very nature of basketball itself. So the NCAA banned dunking in 1967. This was called the “Alcindor Rule”. Another reason dunking was outlawed was to prevent injury and equipment damage. A distorted rim could delay a game. As a result of the rule, Alcindor developed a great hook shot, the “Sky Hook”, which he used effectively during his playing days in college, and in the NBA. After multiple issues with the new rule and the invention of the breakaway rim the NCAA allowed the dunk to be legal again during 1976-1977 season which was shortly after UCLA Coach John Wooden's retirement. The “Alcindor Rule” eventually trickled down to NFHS rules. In 1967, the NFHS banned dunking in high school basketball games. In 1970, the NFHS also prohibited dunking during pregame warmups. Like the NCAA, the NFHS reversed itself in 1976 and a rule change allowed dunking during the game but not during pregame warmups, nor during intermissions, and with a later rule change in 1978 outlawing dunking a dead ball.

Darryl Dawkins (NBA 1975-1989), the Philadelphia 76ers six foot, eleven inch, 251 pound center, in a game against the Kansas City Kings at Municipal Auditorium on November 13, 1979 dunked and broke the backboard sending the King’s Bill Robinzine ducking away. Three weeks later he did it again, this time at home against the San Antonio Spurs at the Spectrum. Thus, Dawkins became famous for his backboard shattering dunks and is credited for being the player to cause the NBA to introduce breakaway rims. Breakaway rims are now an essential element of the game of basketball. A broken backboard or distorted rim could delay a game for hours. In 1981 the NFHS adopted specifications for breakaway rims.

Shaquille O'Neal (LSU 1989-1992, NBA 1992-2011) a seven foot, one inch, 325 pound center, was one of the heaviest players ever to play in the NBA. O'Neal dunked with so much power that he broke the steel supports holding backboards during games against the New Jersey Nets and the Phoenix Suns while playing for the Orlando Magic during the 1992–93 NBA season. This prompted the NBA to increase the strength and stability of the backboard supports and change the stanchion design for the following 1993–94 season. The NFHS added backboard support specifications to the rules in 1996-97.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I agree that it is rare, but when it does happen immediately before, or during, an interscholastic game, it's a big deal, at best, a very long wait, or at worst, a postponement.

I have had an NCAA D1 game delayed because of a rim being damaged due to dunking.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

NFHS Previous To 2024-25: 10-4-6-F: Player Technical: A player must not: Commit an unsporting foul. This includes, but is not limited to, acts or conduct such as: Faking being fouled, knowingly attempting a free throw, or accepting a foul to which the player was not entitled.

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

For some reason, the rules writers conflated "faking being fouled" with other infractions that abuse the foul calling and enforcement process.

Back in high school we were coached to raise our hand (back when it was actually a mandatory rule to raise one's hand when charged with a foul) when we were in the vicinity of our best players being charged with a foul.

It occasionally worked.

And we were never penalized for trying (wink, wink, gamesmanship).

For some reason, nobody ever raised their hand for me.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I have had an NCAA D1 game delayed because of a rim being damaged due to dunking.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

My opening game in the 19(74)-75 AIAW Div. I Florida Sub-Regional delayed because of a bent rim that had to be replaced.

MTD, Sr.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

My opening game in the 19(74)-75 AIAW Div. I Florida Sub-Regional delayed because of a bent rim that had to be replaced.

MTD, Sr.

So does that make for once in over 4 decades? 5? 6? lol, seems like allowing it is worth that risk.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bucky

It wasn't? The text reads "Changes the penalty for faking being fouled...."

Notice the word "Changes". Rule 10-4-6f.


Additionally...from referee mag in 2020: https://www.referee.com/flopping-for...repercussions/

Exactly. They're just emphasizing and spelling it out while decreasing the penalty since very few called it and some even denied it even existed.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Exactly. They're just emphasizing and spelling it out while decreasing the penalty since very few called it and some even denied it even existed.

There was never a definition for flopping or even the word "flopping" used in any rulebook or interpretation. It was never spelled out how to enforce or the multiple situations in which a player can flop. So if that was the intent, it was horribly executed or stated. Now that they put in this rule, some people do not even understand how you even adjudicate this current rule yet for some real situations. People are now debating when you stop the game. But this was so clearly defined before right? LOL!!!!!

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There was never a definition for flopping or even the word "flopping" used in any rulebook or interpretation.

Still isn't.

4-49 (NEW), 10-2-1g (NEW), 10-4-6f: Changes the penalty for faking being fouled from a player technical to a warning for the first violation and a team technical for any subsequent offense and adds a definition and examples. Rationale: Allows officials to issue a warning before assessing a technical and the technical will now be assessed to the team and not the player, lessening the severity of the penalty while addressing the behavior.

Faking being fouled is defined in Rule 4-49-1 as when a player simulates being fouled or makes theatrical or exaggerated movements when there is no illegal contact. Examples include, but are not limited to, embellishing the impact of incidental contact on block/charge plays or field goal attempts, using a “head bob” to simulate illegal contact and using any tactic to create an opinion of being fouled to gain an advantage. The new language also establishes a procedure for officials to issue a team warning on the first instance of faking being fouled. The warning is recorded in the scorebook and reported to the head coach. Any additional instances will result in a team technical foul and not a player technical foul, which was previously the case.

Maybe we'll see the F-word when the NFHS comments on the 2024-25 Basketball Point of Emphasis Faking Being Fouled; or when the NFHS publishes annual interpretations.

[JRutledge]

"Flopping" used in the announcement

I agree that in your example that might not be fully listed, but it appears they are using the word to describe the types of action in their announcement. We do not have the rulebooks yet and see if they use it as apart of the rule. But even if they don't, they are clearly addressing this situation. It was not about the wording for me, it was the fact they gave examples that are bigger than a block-charge play which people only seemed to focus on. And then they were so adamant they would T up a player for doing that, but never considered things like falling on shots or "head bob" actions that are also considered flops at other levels before this new rule change.

Peace

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

"Flopping" used in the announcement

I agree that in your example that might not be fully listed, but it appears they are using the word to describe the types of action in their announcement. We do not have the rulebooks yet and see if they use it as apart of the rule. But even if they don't, they are clearly addressing this situation. It was not about the wording for me, it was the fact they gave examples that are bigger than a block-charge play which people only seemed to focus on. And then they were so adamant they would T up a player for doing that, but never considered things like falling on shots or "head bob" actions that are also considered flops at other levels before this new rule change.

Peace

I have not had a head bob happen in my games yet, but I have had the shooter falling down, players falling to exaggerate contact, and players sitting down on block/charge plays. In women's college games, play is stopped "at the next stoppage of the game clock" to report the warning (4-14.2). The technical foul for a second or subsequent offense is called as usual for any other technical foul.

NFHS can follow the women's college protocol, or they might choose to follow the old men's protocol of stopping the game immediately after the play the flop happened on ends. We will have to wait until the new rulebook is officially published to find out.