2024-25 NFHS Rules Changes

[Rich]

https://www.nfhs.org/articles/floppi...rules-changes/

[JRutledge]

Finally, they address flopping with some language and not an implied ruling.

Love the rule with the BI exception with the net. Just like the college rule.

Love the blood rule where we have wiggle room, just like in college.

Love that the dunking in pre-game is not as punitive. I wish they would get rid of the coaching box losses regardless, but this is a good start.

And of course, the official elimination of the closely guarded count is outstanding for the shot clock. Now no ambiguousness in that rule.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Finally, they address flopping with some language and not an implied ruling.

Love the rule with the BI exception with the net. Just like the college rule.

Love the blood rule where we have wiggle room, just like in college.

Love that the dunking in pre-game is not as punitive. I wish they would get rid of the coaching box losses regardless, but this is a good start.

And of course, the official elimination of the closely guarded count is outstanding for the shot clock. Now no ambiguousness in that rule.

Peace

The BI one is, in fact, how this is generally called, at least here. If someone touches the net and the ball is 3/4 through and it doesn't affect the shot, I'm not killing play to show everyone how smart I am. Now I have rules support for that.

It will be interesting to see if the flopping rule will be called and if it cleans up that part of the game.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

The BI one is, in fact, how this is generally called, at least here. If someone touches the net and the ball is 3/4 through and it doesn't affect the shot, I'm not killing play to show everyone how smart I am. Now I have rules support for that.

It will be interesting to see if the flopping rule will be called and if it cleans up that part of the game.

I do not think most people even did anything if the touch hardly moved the net. I know I didn't. I think this gives something minor and out to not stop the game. The net rarely has any influence on a shot unless it was hit to where it is at the top of the rim.

Peace

[bucky]

Actual link to rules changes:

https://www.nfhs.org/sports-resource...nges-2024-25/#

[bucky]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not think most people even did anything if the touch hardly moved the net. I know I didn't. I think this gives something minor and out to not stop the game. The net rarely has any influence on a shot unless it was hit to where it is at the top of the rim.

Peace

In my experience with such plays, it was also often difficult to discern who (offense/defense) touched the net.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Finally, they address flopping with some language and not an implied ruling.

Love the rule with the BI exception with the net. Just like the college rule.

Love the blood rule where we have wiggle room, just like in college.

Love that the dunking in pre-game is not as punitive. I wish they would get rid of the coaching box losses regardless, but this is a good start.

And of course, the official elimination of the closely guarded count is outstanding for the shot clock. Now no ambiguousness in that rule.

Peace

Unsure about "implied ruling". It is in the rules, no?

I also like the blood rule but still feel 20 seconds is not enough. I'd like it to be more generous. Kid gets opponent's blood on their jersey and there's no way that can be rectified in 20 seconds. Now, officials will probably allow a little extra time but still. Often extra jersey need to be changed in the locker room, trainers can't readily be found, blood cleaner in training room and not at bench, etc.

Regarding pre-game dunking....Many NBA rules trickle down to college and college trickles down to high school. The upper two have allowed pre-game dunking for a very long time. Why it is not allowed at HS level is beyond me. All reasons given have been quite hypocritical IMO.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bucky

Unsure about "implied ruling". It is in the rules, no?

I also like the blood rule but still feel 20 seconds is not enough. I'd like it to be more generous. Kid gets opponent's blood on their jersey and there's no way that can be rectified in 20 seconds. Now, officials will probably allow a little extra time but still. Often extra jersey need to be changed in the locker room, trainers can't readily be found, blood cleaner in training room and not at bench, etc.

Gives them a shot to stay in the game which before they had to be removed regardless. That is the college rule and often gets fixed in that time. Usually just a small scratch and they use a bandage to cover it up. Usually it is not an issue of it being all over the place, but just a spot.

Originally Posted by bucky

Regarding pre-game dunking....Many NBA rules trickle down to college and college trickles down to high school. The upper two have allowed pre-game dunking for a very long time. Why it is not allowed at HS level is beyond me. All reasons given have been quite hypocritical IMO.

It has really not been that long at the college level. But they are not just allowing it, they are changing the penalty.

Peace

[BillyMac]

1996-97: 3-3-6: A player who has been injured to the extent that the coach or any other bench personnel is beckoned and/or comes onto the court shall be directed to leave the game.

2005-06 3-3-5: A player who has been injured to the extent that the coach or any other bench personnel is beckoned and/or comes onto the court shall be directed to leave the game unless a time-out is requested by, and granted to, his/her team and the situation can be corrected by the end of the timeout.

2013-14 3-3-6: A player who has been injured to the extent that the coach or any other bench personnel is beckoned and comes onto the court must be directed to leave the game, unless a time-out is requested by, and granted to, his/her team and the situation can be corrected by the end of the timeout.

2024-25 3-3-6: Requires a player who has been injured to be removed from the game if the coach is beckoned by the official, whether the coach enters the playing area or not, or if bench personnel (i.e., a coach or athletic trainer) enters the court without being beckoned. The coach may still use a time-out to continue assessment of the injury and keep the injured player in the game.

Interesting evolution of this rule, some of it unannounced.

Previous to 2005-06 (my books only go back to 1996-97), a coach couldn’t “buy” his player back into the game with a timeout if the coach was beckoned and/or came onto the court.

Previous to 2013-14, if a coach was beckoned, but didn’t enter the court, the player was still directed to leave the game (timeout exception added in 2006-07).

From 2013-14 to 2023-24, if a coach was beckoned, but didn’t enter the court, the player was not directed to leave the game.

Now, in 2024-25, we have a rule citation that says that if a coach was only beckoned, but didn’t enter the court, the player is now (once again) directed to leave the game (with timeout exception). And we also have actual rule language (I believe for the first time) in support that a coach can enter the court to attend to an injured player without an official beckoning.

Forty-plus years ago, our local interpreter told us that if a coach entered the court to attend to an injured player without officially being beckoning, we were to “deem” him to be beckoned. He didn’t want any technical fouls charged to coaches for leaving the bench (seat belt rule back then, coaching box later) to attend to an injured player without officially being beckoning.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

From 2013-14 to 2023-24, if a coach was beckoned (“and”), but didn’t enter the court, the player was not directed to leave the game.

Last season, I actually had a coach refuse to enter the court to attend to his injured player after I beckoned him. Best player, fourth period of a close game. He didn't want to "burn" a timeout to keep his best player in the game. Sure enough, in a few short seconds, the "injured" star player bounced back up and was ready to play. The coach obviously knew his player (a former Academy Award winner) much better than me.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

2024-25 3-3-6: Requires a player who has been injured to be removed from the game if the coach is beckoned by the official, whether the coach enters the playing area or not, or if bench personnel (i.e., a coach or athletic trainer) enters the court without being beckoned. The coach may still use a time-out to continue assessment of the injury and keep the injured player in the game.

Now, in 2024-25, we have a rule citation that says that if a coach was only beckoned, but didn’t enter the court, the player is now (once again) directed to leave the game (with timeout exception).

Not a big change, but now officials should patiently wait a second or so before beckoning just to make sure that help is needed. Don't need an upset coach that has to burn a timeout because an official "reflexively" beckoned when there was no actual need to beckon, and the player pops back up in a short time.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Previous to 2006-07 (my books only go back to 1996-97), a coach apparently couldn’t “buy” his player back into the game with a timeout if the coach was beckoned and/or came onto the court? Was that actually a “thing”? I thought that a coach always, possibly all the way back to James Naismith and laced basketballs, had the ability ”buy” his player back into the game with a timeout?

I was wrong, off by a year, but still wrong.

Casebook plays from 1996-97 to 2004-05 confirm that a coach couldn’t “buy” his player back into the game with a timeout if the coach was beckoned and/or came onto the court.

Rule changed (timeout exception) in 2005-06.

I'll correct above.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

Regarding pre-game dunking ... Why it is not allowed at HS level is beyond me.

1) High school age and middle school age athletes are less likely to easily be able to successfully dunk and thus are more likely to injure themselves trying to do something that they struggle to do compared to older college and professional athletes.

2) Break, or bend, a rim in a high school gym, or a middle school gym, and one is less likely going have a readily available replacement rim, and/or someone skilled enough to quickly replace it, or repair it, than in a college gym, or a professional gym.

In an interscholastic game, a bent, or broken rim, is more likely to result in both teams (players, coaches, cheerleaders), one team that traveled to the game in an expensive bus, paid officials, paid table crew, paid police officer in the corner, paid press and photographers, and hundreds of ticket buying fans, postponing the game, turning out the gym lights, and going home, than in a collegiate, or professional game.

I see bent, and broken, rims all the time on outdoor playground backboards.

I really don't want to see such in my interscholastic gyms.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

1) High school age and middle school age athletes are less likely to easily be able to successfully dunk and thus are more likely to injure themselves trying to do something that they struggle to do compared to older college and professional athletes.

2) Break, or bend, a rim in a high school gym, or a middle school gym, and one is less likely going have a readily available replacement rim, and/or someone skilled enough to quickly replace it, or repair it, than in a college gym, or a professional gym.

In an interscholastic game, a bent, or broken rim, is more likely to result in both teams (players, coaches, cheerleaders), one team that traveled to the game in an expensive bus, paid officials, paid table crew, paid police officer in the corner, paid press and photographers, and hundreds of ticket buying fans, postponing the game, turning out the gym lights, and going home, than in a collegiate, or professional game.

I see bent, and broken, rims all the time on outdoor playground backboards.

I really don't want to see such in my interscholastic gyms.

All of that stuff could have been said regarding college ball but now they are allowed. In addition, there are far more dunks in the same gym, outside of a game, and the number of equipment failures is, oh, idk, a few.

https://www.sbnation.com/2015/6/9/87...technical-foul

BillyMac - you probably enjoy https://basketballuniverse.io/dunkin...armups-exists/

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

All of that stuff could have been said regarding college ball but now they are allowed ... there are far more dunks in the same gym, outside of a game, and the number of equipment failures is a few.

Few, sure I'll agree with that, but not never.

While I personally don't agree much with the sportsmanship issue (obviously many others did), I still contend that it will be a lot easier to get the rim repaired, or replaced before (or during) an intercollegiate game, or a professional game, then before (or during) an interscholastic game.

I don't care about dunks and broken, or bent rims, in physical education classes, intramurals, or basketball practice, just dunks and broken, or bent rims, before (still illegal) and during (legal) my interscholastic game that night.

If the rim breaks, or is bent, in physical education classes the morning of my night game, and can't be repaired, or replaced, in a timely manner, I don't care, I'll get a call before my game telling me that my interscholastic game is postponed.

I do care very much if the rim breaks, or is bent, fifteen minutes before my interscholastic game, and can't be repaired, or replaced, that night.

I also care very much if the rim breaks, or is bent, during my interscholastic game, and can't be repaired, or replaced, that night, but it's legal and I have no control over that situation, except for a dead ball dunk, and in both cases, that would really piss me off.

Even if the rim could be repaired, or replaced, in a timely manner, I would probably still be too late to hang out with the guys at the local watering hole.

They're not going to wait for me to order.