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Old Thu May 02, 2024, 09:23am
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2024-25 NFHS Rules Changes

https://www.nfhs.org/articles/floppi...rules-changes/
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Old Thu May 02, 2024, 09:49am
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Finally, they address flopping with some language and not an implied ruling.

Love the rule with the BI exception with the net. Just like the college rule.

Love the blood rule where we have wiggle room, just like in college.

Love that the dunking in pre-game is not as punitive. I wish they would get rid of the coaching box losses regardless, but this is a good start.

And of course, the official elimination of the closely guarded count is outstanding for the shot clock. Now no ambiguousness in that rule.

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Old Thu May 02, 2024, 11:56am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Finally, they address flopping with some language and not an implied ruling.

Love the rule with the BI exception with the net. Just like the college rule.

Love the blood rule where we have wiggle room, just like in college.

Love that the dunking in pre-game is not as punitive. I wish they would get rid of the coaching box losses regardless, but this is a good start.

And of course, the official elimination of the closely guarded count is outstanding for the shot clock. Now no ambiguousness in that rule.

Peace
The BI one is, in fact, how this is generally called, at least here. If someone touches the net and the ball is 3/4 through and it doesn't affect the shot, I'm not killing play to show everyone how smart I am. Now I have rules support for that.

It will be interesting to see if the flopping rule will be called and if it cleans up that part of the game.
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Old Thu May 02, 2024, 01:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
The BI one is, in fact, how this is generally called, at least here. If someone touches the net and the ball is 3/4 through and it doesn't affect the shot, I'm not killing play to show everyone how smart I am. Now I have rules support for that.

It will be interesting to see if the flopping rule will be called and if it cleans up that part of the game.
I do not think most people even did anything if the touch hardly moved the net. I know I didn't. I think this gives something minor and out to not stop the game. The net rarely has any influence on a shot unless it was hit to where it is at the top of the rim.

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Old Thu May 02, 2024, 07:46pm
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Actual link to rules changes:

https://www.nfhs.org/sports-resource...nges-2024-25/#
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Old Thu May 02, 2024, 07:53pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I do not think most people even did anything if the touch hardly moved the net. I know I didn't. I think this gives something minor and out to not stop the game. The net rarely has any influence on a shot unless it was hit to where it is at the top of the rim.

Peace
In my experience with such plays, it was also often difficult to discern who (offense/defense) touched the net.
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Old Thu May 02, 2024, 08:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Finally, they address flopping with some language and not an implied ruling.

Love the rule with the BI exception with the net. Just like the college rule.

Love the blood rule where we have wiggle room, just like in college.

Love that the dunking in pre-game is not as punitive. I wish they would get rid of the coaching box losses regardless, but this is a good start.

And of course, the official elimination of the closely guarded count is outstanding for the shot clock. Now no ambiguousness in that rule.

Peace
Unsure about "implied ruling". It is in the rules, no?

I also like the blood rule but still feel 20 seconds is not enough. I'd like it to be more generous. Kid gets opponent's blood on their jersey and there's no way that can be rectified in 20 seconds. Now, officials will probably allow a little extra time but still. Often extra jersey need to be changed in the locker room, trainers can't readily be found, blood cleaner in training room and not at bench, etc.

Regarding pre-game dunking....Many NBA rules trickle down to college and college trickles down to high school. The upper two have allowed pre-game dunking for a very long time. Why it is not allowed at HS level is beyond me. All reasons given have been quite hypocritical IMO.
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Old Fri May 03, 2024, 12:02am
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Originally Posted by bucky View Post
Unsure about "implied ruling". It is in the rules, no?

I also like the blood rule but still feel 20 seconds is not enough. I'd like it to be more generous. Kid gets opponent's blood on their jersey and there's no way that can be rectified in 20 seconds. Now, officials will probably allow a little extra time but still. Often extra jersey need to be changed in the locker room, trainers can't readily be found, blood cleaner in training room and not at bench, etc.
Gives them a shot to stay in the game which before they had to be removed regardless. That is the college rule and often gets fixed in that time. Usually just a small scratch and they use a bandage to cover it up. Usually it is not an issue of it being all over the place, but just a spot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
Regarding pre-game dunking....Many NBA rules trickle down to college and college trickles down to high school. The upper two have allowed pre-game dunking for a very long time. Why it is not allowed at HS level is beyond me. All reasons given have been quite hypocritical IMO.
It has really not been that long at the college level. But they are not just allowing it, they are changing the penalty.

Peace
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Old Fri May 03, 2024, 10:49am
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It's Deja Vu All Over Again (Yogi Berra) …

1996-97: 3-3-6: A player who has been injured to the extent that the coach or any other bench personnel is beckoned and/or comes onto the court shall be directed to leave the game.

2005-06 3-3-5: A player who has been injured to the extent that the coach or any other bench personnel is beckoned and/or comes onto the court shall be directed to leave the game unless a time-out is requested by, and granted to, his/her team and the situation can be corrected by the end of the timeout.

2013-14 3-3-6: A player who has been injured to the extent that the coach or any other bench personnel is beckoned and comes onto the court must be directed to leave the game, unless a time-out is requested by, and granted to, his/her team and the situation can be corrected by the end of the timeout.

2024-25 3-3-6: Requires a player who has been injured to be removed from the game if the coach is beckoned by the official, whether the coach enters the playing area or not, or if bench personnel (i.e., a coach or athletic trainer) enters the court without being beckoned. The coach may still use a time-out to continue assessment of the injury and keep the injured player in the game.


Interesting evolution of this rule, some of it unannounced.

Previous to 2005-06 (my books only go back to 1996-97), a coach couldn’t “buy” his player back into the game with a timeout if the coach was beckoned and/or came onto the court.

Previous to 2013-14, if a coach was beckoned, but didn’t enter the court, the player was still directed to leave the game (timeout exception added in 2006-07).

From 2013-14 to 2023-24, if a coach was beckoned, but didn’t enter the court, the player was not directed to leave the game.

Now, in 2024-25, we have a rule citation that says that if a coach was only beckoned, but didn’t enter the court, the player is now (once again) directed to leave the game (with timeout exception). And we also have actual rule language (I believe for the first time) in support that a coach can enter the court to attend to an injured player without an official beckoning.

Forty-plus years ago, our local interpreter told us that if a coach entered the court to attend to an injured player without officially being beckoning, we were to “deem” him to be beckoned. He didn’t want any technical fouls charged to coaches for leaving the bench (seat belt rule back then, coaching box later) to attend to an injured player without officially being beckoning.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sat May 04, 2024 at 10:35am.
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Old Fri May 03, 2024, 10:57am
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Refuse To Enter The Court ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
From 2013-14 to 2023-24, if a coach was beckoned (“and”), but didn’t enter the court, the player was not directed to leave the game.
Last season, I actually had a coach refuse to enter the court to attend to his injured player after I beckoned him. Best player, fourth period of a close game. He didn't want to "burn" a timeout to keep his best player in the game. Sure enough, in a few short seconds, the "injured" star player bounced back up and was ready to play. The coach obviously knew his player (a former Academy Award winner) much better than me.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Fri May 03, 2024 at 11:54am.
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Old Fri May 03, 2024, 01:21pm
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Patience ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
2024-25 3-3-6: Requires a player who has been injured to be removed from the game if the coach is beckoned by the official, whether the coach enters the playing area or not, or if bench personnel (i.e., a coach or athletic trainer) enters the court without being beckoned. The coach may still use a time-out to continue assessment of the injury and keep the injured player in the game.

Now, in 2024-25, we have a rule citation that says that if a coach was only beckoned, but didn’t enter the court, the player is now (once again) directed to leave the game (with timeout exception).
Not a big change, but now officials should patiently wait a second or so before beckoning just to make sure that help is needed. Don't need an upset coach that has to burn a timeout because an official "reflexively" beckoned when there was no actual need to beckon, and the player pops back up in a short time.
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Old Sat May 04, 2024, 09:55am
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Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Not a big change, but now officials should patiently wait a second or so before beckoning just to make sure that help is needed. Don't need an upset coach that has to burn a timeout because an official "reflexively" beckoned when there was no actual need to beckon, and the player pops back up in a short time.
And what exactly changes between how I handled this last year and how I'll handle it this year? I still waited a bit if it was unclear -- the coach was always free to come on his own.

Blood rule is good for small things that a bandaid can fix, which is probably what the committee was thinking.
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Old Sat May 04, 2024, 10:05am
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Misty Watercolor Memories (The Way We Were, Barbra Streisand,1973) …

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Previous to 2006-07 (my books only go back to 1996-97), a coach apparently couldn’t “buy” his player back into the game with a timeout if the coach was beckoned and/or came onto the court? Was that actually a “thing”? I thought that a coach always, possibly all the way back to James Naismith and laced basketballs, had the ability ”buy” his player back into the game with a timeout?
I was wrong, off by a year, but still wrong.

Casebook plays from 1996-97 to 2004-05 confirm that a coach couldn’t “buy” his player back into the game with a timeout if the coach was beckoned and/or came onto the court.

Rule changed (timeout exception) in 2005-06.

I'll correct above.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sun May 05, 2024 at 02:09pm.
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Old Sat May 04, 2024, 10:50am
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Reflexively ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Forty-plus years ago, our local interpreter told us that if a coach entered the court to attend to an injured player without officially being beckoning, we were to “deem” him to be beckoned. He didn’t want any technical fouls charged to coaches for leaving the bench (seat belt rule back then, coaching box later) to attend to an injured player without officially being beckoning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
... the coach was always free to come on his own
Same here, not by rule (previous to 2024-25), but by local interpretation.

If a coach "reflexively"" enters the court to check on an injured player without being officially beckoned, no penalty except to "burn" a timeout (if he has one) to keep such a player in the game, or to have such a player "sit a tick".

Leaving the coaching box (or the bench in ancient times) has (locally) , and will continue (nationally) to be ignored during possible injury situations.

We now have it in the NFHS rule language.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sun May 05, 2024 at 02:10pm.
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Old Sat May 04, 2024, 11:02am
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Patience Is A Virtue ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
And what exactly changes between how I handled this last year and how I'll handle it this year?
I just want to avoid doing this (below).

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Last season, I actually had a coach refuse to enter the court to attend to his injured player after I beckoned him. Best player, fourth period of a close game. He didn't want to "burn" a timeout to keep his best player in the game. Sure enough, in a few short seconds, the "injured" star player bounced back up and was ready to play. The coach obviously knew his player (a former Academy Award winner) much better than me.
Next year, even if the coach doesn't enter the court, if he was beckoned (visually and verbally for everyone to see and hear), he has to burn a timeout (if he has one), or have the player "sit a tick".

Now that we have rulebook language that seems to indicate that there is no technical foul for leaving the coaching box in an injury situation (never was by local interpretation), I intend to be more patient to beckon in such situations.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sat May 04, 2024 at 02:13pm.
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