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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 11, 2024, 11:50am
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Give That Man A Cigar ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1 View Post
... the try had been released by the shooter ... the whole reason that you could shoot the FTs in this situation is that it was NOT a player control foul. Once the shooter released the ball, there was no player control. So it was a charge in a loose-ball situation. But not a player control foul.
Bingo.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 11, 2024, 12:01pm
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Ancient Times ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
They could have combined the categories when they went to the "no FTs for a TC foul" rule a dozen or so years ago.
It was definitely much more than a dozen years ago when we stopped (NFHS) shooting bonus free throws (down on the other end of the court) for "charges" in which the ball had already been released (where the basket could actually count if the ball went in the basket).

It was way back in ancient times, possibly thirty-plus, maybe thirty-five-plus, years ago, way back in the Holocene geological epoch.

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Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Feb 11, 2024 at 12:12pm.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 12, 2024, 09:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Agree. Practical was poor word choice.

Bottom line: All player control fouls are not necessarily also team control fouls.

Give me an example when a PCF is not TCF?

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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 12, 2024, 11:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
Give me an example when a PCF is not TCF?

MTD, Sr.
Airborne shooter.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 13, 2024, 11:12am
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Ball Released ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
Give me an example when a PCF is not TCF?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Airborne shooter ...
... who has released the ball for a try.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 13, 2024, 01:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
... who has released the ball for a try.
Isn't that redundant?

Can you give an example of an Airborne Shooter who has not released the ball? (Hint: The answer is "no".)
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 13, 2024, 02:43pm
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Continuous Motion ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Can you give an example of an Airborne Shooter who has not released the ball?
A ball handler becomes airborne (ball comes to rest in the player’s hands) and starts his continuous trying motion. The trying motion includes arm, foot or body movements used by the player when throwing the ball at his basket. All of this before the ball is released on a try. The player becomes an airborne shooter when both feet have left the floor and are off the ground.

Maybe he didn't release the ball because an opponent "clamped down" on his wrist?

Maybe he quite doesn't fit the official definition (ball released) of a NFHS "airborne shooter", but he certainly is airborne, and he certainly is in the act of shooting, thus he's a generic airborne shooter.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Feb 13, 2024 at 02:48pm.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 13, 2024, 04:56pm
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Airborne Shooter ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
A ball handler becomes airborne (ball comes to rest in the player’s hands) and starts his continuous trying motion. The trying motion includes arm, foot or body movements used by the player when throwing the ball at his basket. All of this before the ball is released on a try. The player becomes an airborne shooter when both feet have left the floor and are off the ground.
He's a shooter, and he's airborne, but he's not an airborne shooter.

4-1-1:An airborne shooter is a player who has released the ball on a try for a goal or has tapped the ball and has not returned to the floor.

Let's just say that he is a shooter that's airborne.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Tue Feb 13, 2024, 10:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post

Let's just say that he is a shooter that's airborne.
who's
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 14, 2024, 10:53am
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Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
who's
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 15, 2024, 03:45am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
For a veteran such as yourself, the difference used to be that a goal could be scored on a player control foul if the try had been released prior to contact and the foul was therefore by an airborne shooter, while a team control foul always prevented any score. Of course that rule changed several years ago. College even changed it.

No more counting a goal and then going to the opposite end for bonus FTs.

Best not to confuse the rookies with this though.

It was once that way, but the progression, I believe, was slightly different.

Early on....it was as you said, the shot would count if released prior to contact. Yes TCFs prevented a score, but the offended team got FTs if in the bonus.

At some point, the PCF was changes to not shoot FTs regardless of the timing of the foul relative to the release. TCF's were still subject to FTs if in the bonus.

Later, the TCF was changed to match the PCF (no FTs).
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