Youth dribbler and defender running parallel

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by KansasJoe

New to officiating but coached two boys from K - 7th until the school takes over. Decided to officiate on the weekends with my 15 year old. Doing the lower elementary grades which I enjoy because I get to do quite a bit of coaching while officiating and everyone seems to really enjoy that. Done 31 games so far and will end up doing about 50 by the time the season is over.

Here's a situation which comes up multiple times. B1 is the defender in legal guarding position and A1 is ball handler. A1 drives but instead of B1 sliding over to keep his torso between him and the basket he simply turns and starts sprinting alongside A1. If I see an extended armbar I'll give them a warning and then call a foul since they're restricting A1s movement. What if they're side by side so shoulder to shoulder and A1 jumps sideways into B1? If B1's torso takes the contact then charge but in this case it's their shoulder. Not in legal guarding position but B1 has a right to a place on the floor.

Another scenario is if A1 goes up for a shot and B1 jumps with him there's minimal contact but they both go flying forward. Both scenarios are if they're perfectly even because if A1s head and shoulder is past then I'd call a defensive foul if there's contact.

Probably an easy question for you experienced refs but want to make sure I'm giving my best and having accurate calls which they'll see as they get older.

Thanks,

Kansas Joe and son, here are some rules, thoughts and questions to consider:
I don't have the specific citations for you but the headings provided in rule #4 should be easy to find in your books.

Rule 4: GUARDING
1. After establishing LGP, the defender is allowed to move laterally or obliquely to maintain position provided it is not toward the opponent when contact occurs. *Note the rule does not say the defender must slide to maintain position but is permitted to move meaning he has options.

2. The rulebook also states the guard is not required to continue facing the opponent. So, while moving to maintain position, does guarding the dribbler with the shoulder or side of the torso facing the dribbler necessarily mean LGP has been lost?

Rule 4: BLOCKING, CHARGING
3. If a guard has obtained LGP, the player with the ball must get
his/her head and shoulders past the torso of the guard. If contact occurs on the torso of the defensive player, the dribbler is responsible for the contact. *Torso = trunk of the player’s body. In some instances the RB and CB make reference to the front of the torso as well as the side of the torso.

Casebook Rule 4: GUARDING POSITION
4. B1 has obtained LGP on A1 and moves to maintain it. A1
moves laterally and contacts defender B1 but does not get
head and shoulders past the torso of B1. Contact occurs on the side of B1’s torso. Ruling: Player control foul by A1.

Questions: In the situation you described, did the defender: Established LGP? Move toward the dribbler causing contact while moving to maintain LGP? While moving to maintain his defensive position, was the dribbler able to get his head/shoulders past defender’s torso? Did the dribbler jump sideways into the side of the defender’s torso? What did the defender do wrong?

Best of luck to you and your son!

[KansasJoe]

Appreciate the replies and the encouragement. Have 8 games this Saturday so should be interesting as some coaches are great while others think every time they're on offense a foul has been committed yet while they're on defense everything is clean.

As far as the responses I'm still a bit confused with conflicting answers. I understand if he gets hit in the torso because the dribbler didn't get his head and shoulder past him. Where the question is since they're shoulder to shoulder. Let's say A1 jumps sideways and a little forward into the defender while running it's not in the torso because it's the shoulder but doesn't the defender have a right to that spot? Would this be better to have a no call or is someone at fault?

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by KansasJoe

Appreciate the replies and the encouragement. Have 8 games this Saturday so should be interesting as some coaches are great while others think every time they're on offense a foul has been committed yet while they're on defense everything is clean.

As far as the responses I'm still a bit confused with conflicting answers. I understand if he gets hit in the torso because the dribbler didn't get his head and shoulder past him. Where the question is since they're shoulder to shoulder. Let's say A1 jumps sideways and a little forward into the defender while running it's not in the torso because it's the shoulder but doesn't the defender have a right to that spot? Would this be better to have a no call or is someone at fault?

As you see the play unfolding you should primarily referee the the defense. If contact occurs you should be able to determine almost immediately if B1 did anything wrong. If not, process the contact initiated by A1 jumping into the side of B1. Was B1 displaced from his attempt to maintain his guarding position? Did A1 gain an obvious advantage such as now being able to put up an uncontested shot? Was A1 simply trying to influence the official into calling a blocking foul on B1? If the answer is no, the contact is likely incidental. No call.

[WI_Ref]

Originally Posted by KansasJoe

Appreciate the replies and the encouragement. Have 8 games this Saturday so should be interesting as some coaches are great while others think every time they're on offense a foul has been committed yet while they're on defense everything is clean.

As far as the responses I'm still a bit confused with conflicting answers. I understand if he gets hit in the torso because the dribbler didn't get his head and shoulder past him. Where the question is since they're shoulder to shoulder. Let's say A1 jumps sideways and a little forward into the defender while running it's not in the torso because it's the shoulder but doesn't the defender have a right to that spot? Would this be better to have a no call or is someone at fault?

You will most likely want to make a call on this especially if the contact seems more than just a brushing.

Based on your description of running side by side and A1 moving laterally into the defender I would call this PCF. I've done it in varsity games, my partners have called it like this and I've seen it and been witness to this same call in D1 men's basketball. Experience obviously helps in these situations as what could look like the same exact play to spectators or coaches could be called differently by the calling official due to their angle on the play.

It's hard for people outside the lines to grasp how officials see the game. We take in and compute a whole bunch of information very fast. When on the court we have a much better feel for the speed and intensity of what is happening.