What if a defender never established LGP and attempts to guard a dribbler

[MiamiWadeCounty]

When you have established initial legal guarding position, you have the right to continue to move in the path of the dribbler. But what if B1 has never established an initial legal guarding position and attempts to guard A1 with his back facing A1? What's the call in this situation, whether contact occurs or doesn't occurs?

[Camron Rust]

If there is no contact, there is no call....legal play.

If there is contact, it will usually be a block.

However, if the defender had been either stationary (no LGP required) or was moving directly away from the dribbler (in the same path and direction), the defender has a right to that position if it was legally obtained. Moving directly away only decreases any chance of contact or the severity of the contact.

LGP is only needed to move laterally or obliquely away from the drubber, not directly away.

[MiamiWadeCounty]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

If there is no contact, there is no call....legal play.

If there is contact, it will usually be a block.

However, if the defender had been either stationary (no LGP required) or was moving directly away from the dribbler (in the same path and direction), the defender has a right to that position if it was legally obtained. Moving directly away only decreases any chance of contact or the severity of the contact.

LGP is only needed to move laterally or obliquely away from the drubber, not directly away.

Thanks. Great response.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Here is an example of a defender guarding the dribbler without having a LGP (actually the defender is setting a moving screen against the dribbler):

A1 is dribbling the ball down the court parallel to the Sideline, with the SL to his right, and B1 is running next to him, on his left just short of contact, stride for stride. Now for the good part: A1 decides to change directions and moves to his left and makes contact with B1 and displaces B1. What do you have?

MTD, Sr.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Here is an example of a defender guarding the dribbler without having a LGP (actually the defender is setting a moving screen against the dribbler):

A1 is dribbling the ball down the court parallel to the Sideline, with the SL to his right, and B1 is running next to him, on his left just short of contact, stride for stride. Now for the good part: A1 decides to change directions and moves to his left and makes contact with B1 and displaces B1. What do you have?

MTD, Sr.

My favorite play as a point guard

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Now for the good part: A1 decides to change directions and moves to his left and makes contact with B1 and displaces B1. What do you have?

A headache.

[stir22]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Here is an example of a defender guarding the dribbler without having a LGP (actually the defender is setting a moving screen against the dribbler):

A1 is dribbling the ball down the court parallel to the Sideline, with the SL to his right, and B1 is running next to him, on his left just short of contact, stride for stride. Now for the good part: A1 decides to change directions and moves to his left and makes contact with B1 and displaces B1. What do you have?

MTD, Sr.

I hate this play. The worst part is, you can always see it coming. And, it is often right in front of the coaches.

If the defender clearly hasn't initiated the contact and isn't trying to impede the RSBQ, then its a no call for me.


As an aside, this happened twice, on successive possessions in a double OT jv game last year, the coach went nuts both times. After the game, the varsity guys who had came out to watch the overtimes said I had a great couple of no calls on those plays. Very confusing, though.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by stir22

I hate this play. The worst part is, you can always see it coming. And, it is often right in front of the coaches.

If the defender clearly hasn't initiated the contact and isn't trying to impede the RSBQ, then its a no call for me.


As an aside, this happened twice, on successive possessions in a double OT jv game last year, the coach went nuts both times. After the game, the varsity guys who had came out to watch the overtimes said I had a great couple of no calls on those plays. Very confusing, though.

So you are saying it is okay for the A1 to push B1 off a spot on the court that he has a legal right to be occupying?

MTD, Sr.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

So you are saying it is okay for the A1 to push B1 off a spot on the court that he has a legal right to be occupying?

MTD, Sr.

No, the varsity guys said so...

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Here is an example of a defender guarding the dribbler without having a LGP (actually the defender is setting a moving screen against the dribbler):

A1 is dribbling the ball down the court parallel to the Sideline, with the SL to his right, and B1 is running next to him, on his left just short of contact, stride for stride. Now for the good part: A1 decides to change directions and moves to his left and makes contact with B1 and displaces B1. What do you have?

MTD, Sr.

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

So you are saying it is okay for the A1 to push B1 off a spot on the court that he has a legal right to be occupying?

MTD, Sr.

I have a block (or nothing).

B1 was not legally in the spot that is now in A1's path. B1 is moving but was never facing A1....thus never had LGP and right to be moving at the time of contact even if it was lateral relative to A1's path.

If, however, A1 made the contact solely for the sake of making contact, I'll probably call nothing....tough luck A1.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I have a block (or nothing).

B1 was not legally in the spot that is now in A1's path. B1 is moving but was never facing A1....thus never had LGP and right to be moving at the time of contact even if it was lateral relative to A1's path.

Agreed. The only way I'd have a charge is if A1 contacted B1 with an outstretched limb.

[tref]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Agreed. The only way I'd have a charge is if A1 contacted B1 with an outstretched limb.

Some of the smarter players use their bodies (dip the shoulder or throw the hip) to displace the defender too.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Agreed. The only way I'd have a charge is if A1 contacted B1 with an outstretched limb.

Really? What if A1 lowers his/her shoulder and absolutely blasts into B1? No PC foul then?

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

What if A1 lowers his/her shoulder and absolutely blasts into B1?

The upper limb includes the shoulder. I did say "outstretched," though. Good catch. Yes, PC.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I have a block (or nothing).

B1 was not legally in the spot that is now in A1's path. B1 is moving but was never facing A1....thus never had LGP and right to be moving at the time of contact even if it was lateral relative to A1's path.

If, however, A1 made the contact solely for the sake of making contact, I'll probably call nothing....tough luck A1.

Camron:

In my play, A1 and B1 are moving in the same direction along parallel paths, meaning that B1 is setting a legal moving screen against A1 within A1's vision. If A1 moves into B1 and displaces B1 from his path, then A1 has committed a pushing foul.

MTD, Sr.