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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 15, 2023, 01:50pm
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Too Early (Vol 2)

When the coaching staff is more focused on being fans than controlling the bench, this is what happens.

https://www.outkick.com/norfolk-stat...ebration-loss/

Oops.


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 15, 2023, 04:14pm
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Welp, there was no dispute over the end of the game, not in college.

Peace
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 15, 2023, 10:13pm
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Not a single official on this crew stepped up to make sure only one free throw was shot??

Bad.
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Old Sun Jan 15, 2023, 10:58pm
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I didn’t realize that was only a Class B. Wow, what a colossal rule kick.


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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 16, 2023, 10:11am
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Rule 10-4

Art. 2. A technical foul shall be assessed to a coach and/or all bench personnel for the following infractions:

h. Delaying the game by preventing the ball from being promptly made live or by preventing continuous play, such as bench personnel entering the playing court before player activity has been terminated. In such a case, when the delay does not interfere with play, it shall be ignored;

PENALTY—Article 1 and Article 2.a through i. One free throw shall be awarded to any member of the offended team.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 16, 2023, 03:24pm
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Reading the rule book, it seems like 10-4-2-h is perfectly tailored here and would be the most applicable which would be a kicked call...

I don't know enough about NCAA rules or interpretations, but is it possible they called too many players on the court (10-2-6) instead?
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 16, 2023, 04:39pm
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Bench personnel are not players by definition. So while the crew may have used that rule to justify shooting two FTs instead of one, they would still be massively incorrect notwithstanding the fact that a rule exists to cover this exact situation.

Last edited by SC Official; Mon Jan 16, 2023 at 07:30pm.
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Old Wed Jan 18, 2023, 11:21am
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This play was addressed today by the NCAA rules interpreter in the latest bulletin. If you are on Ref Quest you can see what the rule reference is for this situation.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 18, 2023, 12:48pm
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From this morning's aforementioned NCAA memo:

Celebrations – A.R. 311 addresses bench personnel (players) and/or team followers running onto the floor before time expires to celebrate a potential game winning shot and preventing the ball from being made live or preventing continuous play. In this situation, A.R. 311 and Rule 10-4.2.h supersede Rule 10.4.1.m. If a player(s) run onto the floor before time expires and delay the game as stated above, the team should be assessed with a Class B technical foul that is also charged to the head coach. If it’s just team followers running onto the floor and delaying play then it is an Administrative technical foul. Note, in situations when the delay does not interfere with play, it shall be ignored.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 19, 2023, 12:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1 View Post
From this morning's aforementioned NCAA memo:

Celebrations – A.R. 311 addresses bench personnel (players) and/or team followers running onto the floor before time expires to celebrate a potential game winning shot and preventing the ball from being made live or preventing continuous play. In this situation, A.R. 311 and Rule 10-4.2.h supersede Rule 10.4.1.m. If a player(s) run onto the floor before time expires and delay the game as stated above, the team should be assessed with a Class B technical foul that is also charged to the head coach. If it’s just team followers running onto the floor and delaying play then it is an Administrative technical foul. Note, in situations when the delay does not interfere with play, it shall be ignored.
What if both happen? If the players AND the fans run on the court, do you assess a Class B for the players and an Administrative for the fans? That would explain the two free throws instead of just one.
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Old Thu Jan 19, 2023, 01:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Bill View Post
What if both happen? If the players AND the fans run on the court, do you assess a Class B for the players and an Administrative for the fans? That would explain the two free throws instead of just one.

Well in the subject play, I saw no fans impeding.

But in your hypothetical, I’d say it would be a judgment as to who was doing the impeding at the point play was impeded. So if in your judgment the bench personnel came out first, followed by fans but after the bench personnel had already impeded, then it’s Class B and ignore the fans’ action.

Almost like a free throw violation where the defender in the lane space induces the offensive player next to them to violate. We hold the inducer accountable.


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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 19, 2023, 02:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1 View Post
From this morning's aforementioned NCAA memo:

Celebrations – A.R. 311 addresses bench personnel (players) and/or team followers running onto the floor before time expires to celebrate a potential game winning shot and preventing the ball from being made live or preventing continuous play. In this situation, A.R. 311 and Rule 10-4.2.h supersede Rule 10.4.1.m. If a player(s) run onto the floor before time expires and delay the game as stated above, the team should be assessed with a Class B technical foul that is also charged to the head coach. If it’s just team followers running onto the floor and delaying play then it is an Administrative technical foul. Note, in situations when the delay does not interfere with play, it shall be ignored.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Bill View Post
What if both happen? If the players AND the fans run on the court, do you assess a Class B for the players and an Administrative for the fans? That would explain the two free throws instead of just one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
Well in the subject play, I saw no fans impeding.

But in your hypothetical, I’d say it would be a judgment as to who was doing the impeding at the point play was impeded. So if in your judgment the bench personnel came out first, followed by fans but after the bench personnel had already impeded, then it’s Class B and ignore the fans’ action.

Almost like a free throw violation where the defender in the lane space induces the offensive player next to them to violate. We hold the inducer accountable.


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Agreed. And based on other rulings since I became a college official, I believe the NCAA intends for like acts that happen at the same time to be penalized collectively. I also look at the word "just" in the bolded portion of the NCAA bullentin. It is used to differentiate whether it's a Class B charged to the coach or an Administrative charged to the team only.
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Last edited by Raymond; Thu Jan 19, 2023 at 03:16pm.
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