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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 08, 2023, 04:47am
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the "butt-cheek" pivot

From a NFHS Basketball-type Facebook page:

"Here’s one for ya.

Ball is on the floor. Player sitting on their butt recovers the ball. They use their feet to propel themself in a circle in an attempt to avoid having the ball stolen from them. Both feet are lifted from and returned to the floor multiple times during this “spin move.”

Whatcha got?"
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 08, 2023, 05:38am
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The rules prohibit a player who is in possession of the ball while contacting the floor with other than a hand or foot from rolling over or attempting to get up (or actually getting up). That is all. There are no other restrictions on such a player. Therefore, I believe that the action you describe is legal.
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Old Sun Jan 08, 2023, 12:24pm
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Which is his pivot cheek?
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Old Sun Jan 08, 2023, 02:09pm
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Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
The rules prohibit a player who is in possession of the ball while contacting the floor with other than a hand or foot from rolling over or attempting to get up (or actually getting up). That is all. There are no other restrictions on such a player.
But there are restrictions on ANY player who is holding the ball regarding legal movement of the feet. A player who is holding the ball with both feet on the floor can lift one foot, making the other foot the pivot foot. Are you saying this restriction doesn't apply because something other than his/her feet is touching the floor?
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Old Sun Jan 08, 2023, 06:45pm
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Originally Posted by Scrapper1 View Post
But there are restrictions on ANY player who is holding the ball regarding legal movement of the feet. A player who is holding the ball with both feet on the floor can lift one foot, making the other foot the pivot foot. Are you saying this restriction doesn't apply because something other than his/her feet is touching the floor?
Correct, such a player is only subject to the restrictions in 4-44-5b (and the associated case book play rulings 4.44.5B&C). The rest of the traveling rule, 4-44, is for a player who is standing on his feet or airborne.

Consider a simplified version of the OP. The player is sitting on the floor and gains control of the ball. Both of the player’s feet are touching the floor. The player lifts both feet off the floor and returns them to the floor without moving otherwise. Would you penalize this action?

Consider a player in a prone position on the floor with the ball who has his toes in contact with the floor. If he lifts his feet by bending his knees and then returns his feet to the floor would you penalize him?

I believe that the traveling rule is simplified for a player in contact with the floor with other than a hand or foot because the officials need to be more occupied with looking for illegal contact as players dive and scramble for the ball as this action inherently puts players at greater risk of injury. Therefore, we are not tasked with observing a pivot foot, but only ensuring that a down player with the ball does not roll over or attempt to get up. To be watching for a pivot foot in such situations doesn’t make sense.
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Old Fri Jan 13, 2023, 01:49pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Correct, such a player is only subject to the restrictions in 4-44-5b (and the associated case book play rulings 4.44.5B&C). The rest of the traveling rule, 4-44, is for a player who is standing on his feet or airborne.

Consider a simplified version of the OP. The player is sitting on the floor and gains control of the ball. Both of the player’s feet are touching the floor. The player lifts both feet off the floor and returns them to the floor without moving otherwise. Would you penalize this action?

Consider a player in a prone position on the floor with the ball who has his toes in contact with the floor. If he lifts his feet by bending his knees and then returns his feet to the floor would you penalize him?

I believe that the traveling rule is simplified for a player in contact with the floor with other than a hand or foot because the officials need to be more occupied with looking for illegal contact as players dive and scramble for the ball as this action inherently puts players at greater risk of injury. Therefore, we are not tasked with observing a pivot foot, but only ensuring that a down player with the ball does not roll over or attempt to get up. To be watching for a pivot foot in such situations doesn’t make sense.
Agreed. The foot movement restrictions are for a player standing.
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Old Fri Jan 13, 2023, 04:29pm
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Originally Posted by jmwking View Post
Which is his pivot cheek?

Just so you know, I thought that was funny. The heck with the old stiffs who didn’t even raise an eyebrow.


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Old Wed Jan 18, 2023, 12:56pm
Lighten up, Francis.
 
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Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
Just so you know, I thought that was funny. The heck with the old stiffs who didn’t even raise an eyebrow.
The old stiffs think it's funny, too. (Or, at least, they did when it first appeared on the forum 20 years ago. Also -- god, I'm old!) But the line has been used here so many times that it's lost its novelty.
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Old Wed Jan 18, 2023, 02:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1 View Post
The old stiffs think it's funny, too. (Or, at least, they did when it first appeared on the forum 20 years ago. Also -- god, I'm old!) But the line has been used here so many times that it's lost its novelty.
Probably an old Mark Padgett joke.
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