Correctable Error And Held Ball ...

[BillyMac]

2.10.1 SITUATION F: A1 is fouled but erroneously is not awarded two free throws even though the automatic bonus is in effect. Team A is given a throw-in, and A1 inbounds the ball to A2 who is tied up by B1 resulting in a held-ball situation. The error is discovered following the held-ball call. The possession arrow is pointing to: (a) A’s; or (b) B’s basket. RULING: In (a), the merited free throws will be awarded, and play will continue from that action, since Team A had not lost possession between the error and when the error was recognized. However, in (b), the lane is cleared for A1’s merited free throws, and play resumes from the point of interruption which is an alternating-possession throw-in by Team B.

This caseplay was covered in Greg Austin’s “A Better Official” You Tube live broadcast this morning.

Regarding situation (b), was there actually a change of possession, or would the change of possession not occur until the ball is put at the disposal of Team B for a throwin? In other words, would Team A not actually lose possession (thus change possession) until the Team B throwin disposal?

Is it necessary to actually change possession (by Team B gaining possession), or just lose possession (dead ball)?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

2.10.1 SITUATION F: A1 is fouled but erroneously is not awarded two free throws even though the automatic bonus is in effect. Team A is given a throw-in, and A1 inbounds the ball to A2 who is tied up by B1 resulting in a held-ball situation. The error is discovered following the held-ball call. The possession arrow is pointing to: (a) A’s; or (b) B’s basket. RULING: In (a), the merited free throws will be awarded, and play will continue from that action, since Team A had not lost possession between the error and when the error was recognized. However, in (b), the lane is cleared for A1’s merited free throws, and play resumes from the point of interruption which is an alternating-possession throw-in by Team B.

This caseplay was covered in Greg Austin’s “A Better Official” You Tube live broadcast this morning.

Regarding situation (b), was there actually a change of possession, or would the change of possession not occur until the ball is put at the disposal of Team B for a throwin? In other words, would Team A not actually lose possession (thus change possession) until the Team B throwin disposal?

Is it necessary to actually change possession (by Team B gaining possession), or just lose possession (dead ball)?

The ruling is consistent with 2.10.1D, but seems inconsistent with 2.10.1A

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The ruling is consistent with 2.10.1D, but seems inconsistent with 2.10.1A

2.10.1 SITUATION A: A1 is fouled and entitled to two free throws. However, the officials indicate a one-and-one bonus situation. The first attempt is unsuccessful; B4 rebounds the ball and passes it up to B2. The error is discovered with B2 in possession of the live ball near mid-court. RULING: The error is discovered within the correctable error timeframe, and shall be corrected. Team B securing the rebound and passing to a teammate constitutes no change in team possession. Therefore, A1 will receive the merited free throw with players in lane line spaces and play resumes from the free throw. (2-10-1a)

2.10.1 SITUATION D: A1 is fouled. Team A is awarded the ball out of bounds. The foul was Team B’s seventh team foul and A1 should have been awarded a one and one bonus. Team A scores on the ensuing throw-in. As the ball passes through the net, the officials are informed of the error. RULING: The error is discovered within the correctable error timeframe. Count the goal by A; A1 will be awarded the bonus with no players along the lane lines. There has been a change of possession and the point of interruption is the goal by Team A, therefore Team B will be awarded a throw-in anywhere along the end line. (2-10-1a; 2-10-5)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The ruling is consistent with 2.10.1D, but seems inconsistent with 2.10.1A

Thanks for understanding, and responding to, my question.

I had difficulty putting it into the right words.

I got this wrong on Greg Austin’s “A Better Official” You Tube live broadcast this morning.

Embarrassing to get it wrong in front of millions of viewers.

Wait ... I'm being told ... How many? ... Dozens? ... Never mind.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The ruling is consistent with 2.10.1D, but seems inconsistent with 2.10.1A

So I'm just not imagining something, there is something "fishy" regarding the "definition" of change of possession in regard to correctable errors in these caseplays?

“Something is rotten in the state of Denmark …“ (Hamlet, William Shakespeare).

[Mike Goodwin]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

2.10.1 SITUATION A: A1 is fouled and entitled to two free throws. However, the officials indicate a one-and-one bonus situation. The first attempt is unsuccessful; B4 rebounds the ball and passes it up to B2. The error is discovered with B2 in possession of the live ball near mid-court. RULING: The error is discovered within the correctable error timeframe, and shall be corrected. Team B securing the rebound and passing to a teammate constitutes no change in team possession. Therefore, A1 will receive the merited free throw with players in lane line spaces and play resumes from the free throw. (2-10-1a)

2.10.1 SITUATION D: A1 is fouled. Team A is awarded the ball out of bounds. The foul was Team B’s seventh team foul and A1 should have been awarded a one and one bonus. Team A scores on the ensuing throw-in. As the ball passes through the net, the officials are informed of the error. RULING: The error is discovered within the correctable error timeframe. Count the goal by A; A1 will be awarded the bonus with no players along the lane lines. There has been a change of possession and the point of interruption is the goal by Team A, therefore Team B will be awarded a throw-in anywhere along the end line. (2-10-1a; 2-10-5)

In 2.10.1 Sit A, the error occurs when the ball remains live after A1's first free throw. As stated, B4 rebounds; that's (the first) possession. When the ball becomes dead at mid-court, Team B still has possession. Therefore, no change in possession and B's ball for an A/P throw-in, after the FT attempt.

In 2.10.1 Sit D., the error occurs when the ball is at the disposal of Team A for the throw-in, that's (the first) team possession. Once the team A player releases the ball on a try for goal, at that moment there is a change in possession. In other words, Team A is no longer in (team) control of the ball. Therefore, POI & Team B's throw-in anywhere along the end line after the FT attempt.

In 2.10. Sit F(b), the change in possession occurs when the held ball is signalled because the arrow is pointed toward Team B.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mike Goodwin

In other words, Team A is no longer in (team) control of the ball ...

Sounds good.

No longer in Team A control (shot, out of bounds, team control foul, etc.) means a change in possession for correctable error purposes, even if Team B has not yet controlled the ball.

Thanks.

I was incorrectly defining change of possession (for correctable error purposes) as Team A had control of the ball, Team A lost control of the ball, and then Team B gained control of the ball

I guess that we don't need the last (red) clause in the sentence above for a change of possession for correctable error purposes.

[Nevadaref]

The governing NFHS rule for awarding possession after a contest is interrupted is 4-36 Point of Interruption.

As a veteran official, you must note that 2-10 clearly predates 4-36 becoming part of the NFHS rules, yet understand that once the concept of POI was added to NFHS play, it needs to work with the text of 2-10 in order to properly award possession in the cases you present.

2-10 by itself is no longer the only rule to consider in these cases as 4-36-1 specifically tells us to use POI to resume play following a correctable error. Therefore, we must heed what is within 4-36-2 when continuing play.

Now let’s examine the situations in the case plays with reference to 4-36-2.

The ruling in 2.10.1A is just wrong. The NFHS messed up. It is as simple as that. You can’t stop the game with Team B in possession of a live ball, take the ball away from Team B in order to award a FT to Team A, and then continue with normal rebounding from that FT. Possession of the ball must be returned to Team B following the FTs. That is clearly what 4-36-2a of the POI rule states. The ball goes back to the team that was in possession when the stoppage occurred. The NFHS needs to fix this case play.

2.10.1D is correct because the POI is that Team B is entitled to a throw-in following the goal scored by Team A when the stoppage occurred. This is 4-36-2b.

The same principle holds for 2.10.1F. Consider which team is entitled to the ensuing AP throw-in when the error is recognized. In part (a) this means that no change in possession will occur and the game may be resumed and continued from the FTs now awarded to Team A according to 2-10-6. However, in part (b) the ensuing throw-in to Team B will cause a change in possession, so the exception in 2-10-6 cannot be employed and 4-36-2b governs how play is resumed.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The governing NFHS rule for awarding possession after a contest is interrupted is 4-36 Point of Interruption.

4-36: Point Of Interruption
ART. 1 Method of resuming play due to an official’s inadvertent whistle, an interrupted game, as in 5-4-3, a correctable error, as in 2-10-6, a double personal, double technical or simultaneous foul, as in 4-19-8 and 4-19-10.
ART. 2 Play must be resumed by one of the following methods:
a. A throw-in to the team that was in control at an out-of-bounds spot nearest to where the ball was located when the interruption occurred.
b. A free throw or a throw-in when the interruption occurred during this activity or if a team is entitled to such.
c. A jump ball or alternating-possession throw-in when neither team is in control and no goal, infraction, nor end of quarter/extra period is involved when the game is interrupted.
ART. 3 When the ball remains live after a violation or foul (as in 4-19- 8) during a try for goal, the point of interruption is determined to be when the ball becomes dead following the violation or foul.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

... will cause a change in possession ...

Good way to explain it, not sure I agree 100%, but still a very good way to explain the NFHS held ball correctable error interpretation.

I guess that we have to think, "What would have happened next if there was no correctable error to correct?", before the "next" actually happened, to decide if there was, or wasn't, a change in possession.