BillyMac dream come true

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Chicago State at Minnesota. Player goes to throw a pass from outside the three-point line and a defender deflects it and it goes into the basket. Officials awarded a three-pointer. Don't remember if the defender was inside or outside the 3-pt line

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

I am sure this would be an easy find. But it looked like they awarded a 2 on the initial call. Did they change it later?

Peace

[BillyMac]

For young'uns born after the introduction of the three point line (NFHS 1987-1988), initially, in order to count three points, the officials had to be 100% sure that it was an actual try.

Initially, an alley oop pass from behind the three point line to a teammate that "accidentally" and directly went in the basket was only counted as two points.

The rule changed to the present rule after only a few years.

Once Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. rehabilitates his new "Six Million Dollar Man" knee, he can climb up to his attic library and tell us when the change occurred.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am sure this would be an easy find. But it looked like they awarded a 2 on the initial call. Did they change it later?



Peace

I can't embed it from my phone, but I just watched it again, and yes it was only a 2 initially but the play-by-play has it as 3. Just saw also that one foot for the defender was inside the 3-point line.



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Player goes to throw a pass from outside the three-point line and a defender deflects it and it goes into the basket.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Touched by a defender, either inside, or outside, the three point line, is easy. Three points.

Originally Posted by Raymond

Just saw also that one foot for the defender was inside the 3-point line.

Doesn't matter (NFHS) inside, or outside, for a defender, still three points.

It does matter if the ball touches a second offensive player, inside, two points; outside, three points.

[JRutledge]

The play in question was clearly not at the basket or by the description of the NF an "Alley-opp" pass. This was just a cross-court attempted a pass that was deflected by the defender in front and then went in the basket. So yes, it matters at least by the NF description. Clearly at the NCAA level they even say that it must be a pass toward the basket on some level and clearly says why. The deflection went in a totally different direction.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Touched by a defender, either inside, or outside, the three point line, is easy. Three points.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Doesn't matter (NFHS) inside, or outside, for a defender, still three points.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This was just a cross-court attempted a pass that was deflected by the defender in front and then went in the basket. So yes, it matters at least by the NF description.

NFHS 5-2-A: A successful try, tap or thrown ball from the field by a player who is located behind the team’s own 19-foot, 9-inch arc counts three points. A ball that touches the floor, a teammate inside the arc, an official, or any other goal from the field counts two points for the team into whose basket the ball is thrown.

5.2.1 SITUATION C: A1 throws the ball from behind the three-point line. The ball is legally touched by: (a) B1 who is in the three-point area; (b) B1 who is in the two-point area; (c) A2 who is in the three-point area; or (d) A2 who is in the two-point area. The ball continues in flight and goes through A's basket. RULING: In (a) and (b), three points are scored since the legal touching was by the defense and the ball was thrown from behind the three-point line. In (c), score three points since the legal touch by a teammate occurred behind the three- point line. In (d), score two points since the legal touch by a teammate occurred in the two-point area.

NFHS rule citation doesn't mention a ball touching a defender inside the arc (or outside the arc) as negating three points.

No NFHS rule language about the direction of the original pass, unlike the NCAA language.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... at the NCAA level they even say that it must be a pass toward the basket on some level ...

[Nevadaref]

The NFHS has made it clear through play rulings that the thrown ball must have a chance to enter the basket on its own prior to any deflection in order to count for three points. Recall the case play in which the shot comes down several feet short, strikes a defender in the shoulder, bounces up and into the goal. The ruling is only two points.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The NFHS has made it clear through play rulings that the thrown ball must have a chance to enter the basket on its own prior to any deflection in order to count for three points. Recall the case play in which the shot comes down several feet short, strikes a defender in the shoulder, bounces up and into the goal. The ruling is only two points.

Did they take that casebook play out? I remember that as well.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

5.2.1 SITUATION C: A1 throws the ball from behind the three-point line. The ball is legally touched by: (a) B1 who is in the three-point area; (b) B1 who is in the two-point area; (c) A2 who is in the three-point area; or (d) A2 who is in the two-point area. The ball continues in flight and goes through A's basket. RULING: In (a) and (b), three points are scored since the legal touching was by the defense and the ball was thrown from behind the three-point line. In (c), score three points since the legal touch by a teammate occurred behind the three- point line. In (d), score two points since the legal touch by a teammate occurred in the two-point area.

NFHS rule citation doesn't mention a ball touching a defender inside the arc (or outside the arc) as negating three points.

No NFHS rule language about the direction of the original pass, unlike the NCAA language.

Funny you did not read or show 5.2.1 Situation B which clearly states there was an "Alley-oop" type pass.

With 2:24 left in the second quarter, B1 has the ball on the left wing in Team B's frontcourt, standing behind the three-point arc. B5 makes the backdoor cut toward the basket. B1 passes the ball toward the ring and B5 leaps for the potential "alley-oop" dunk. The ball however, enters and passes through the goal directly from B1's pass and is not touched by B5.

Score three points for Team B. A ball that is thrown into a team's own goal from behind the three-point arc scores three points, regardless whether the ball is thrown was an actual try for goal.

To me this suggests it is a throw at least at the goal. That is not what happened in this play at Minnesota at all.

Peace

[BillyMac]

5-2-1: A successful try, tap or thrown ball from the field by a player who is located behind the team’s own 19-foot, 9-inch arc counts three points. A ball that touches the floor, a teammate inside the arc, an official, or any other goal from the field counts two points for the team into whose basket the ball is thrown.

5.2.1 SITUATION C: A1 throws the ball from behind the three-point line. The ball is legally touched by: (a) B1 who is in the three-point area; (b) B1 who is in the two-point area; (c) A2 who is in the three-point area; or (d) A2 who is in the two-point area. The ball continues in flight and goes through A's basket. RULING: In (a) and (b), three points are scored since the legal touching was by the defense and the ball was thrown from behind the three-point line. In (c), score three points since the legal touch by a teammate occurred behind the three-point line. In (d), score two points since the legal touch by a teammate occurred in the two-point area.

Comments On The 2001-02 Revisions
Three point basket clarified. Three points shall be awarded for any ball thrown, passed, or shot from beyond the three point arc that passes through a team’s own basket. Where in most situations a try can be differentiated from a pass, to eliminate possible confusion this change should help to clarify by not requiring judgment as to whether the ball in flight was a pass or a try.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The NFHS has made it clear through play rulings that the thrown ball must have a chance to enter the basket on its own prior to any deflection in order to count for three points. Recall the case play in which the shot comes down several feet short, strikes a defender in the shoulder, bounces up and into the goal. The ruling is only two points.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Did they take that casebook play out? I remember that as well.

4.41.4 - Situation B: A1’s three-point try is short and below ring level when it hits the shoulder of: (a) A2; or (b) B1 and rebounds to the backboard and through the basket. Ruling: The three-point try ended when it was obviously short and below the ring. However, since a live ball went through the basket, two points are scored in both (a) and (b). (5-1)

Check this out:

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...ee-points.html

There's a lot to digest here, including a ruling by IAABO that contradicts itself (I'm am perfectly aware that few Forum members belong to IAABO).

I have to leave for Christmas dinner at my daughter's house, but I'll be back to comment later, and possibly eat crow if I have any appetite left.