Basket, Ring, Backboard ...

[BillyMac]

I finally got hold of the IAABO Refresher Exam answer sheet.

Here's one of the three questions that I got wrong.

#48 With four minutes remaining in the quarter, A-1, in the backcourt, throws a pass toward A-5 in the frontcourt. The pass hits the ring and rebounds untouched back to A-1 in the backcourt. The officials allow play to continue. Is this correct?

My answer: #48 Yes.
IAABO answer: #48 No.

4-4-5: A ball which touches the front faces or edges of the backboard is treated the same as touching the floor inbounds.

9-9-2: While in player and team control in its backcourt, a player must not cause the ball to go from backcourt to frontcourt and return to backcourt, without the ball touching a player in the frontcourt, such that he/she or a teammate is the first to touch it in the backcourt.

2021-22 NFHS Basketball Casebook 9.5 Situation: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the ball against: (a) the team’s own backboard; (b) the opponent’s backboard; or (c) an official and catches the ball after each. Ruling: Legal in (a); a team’s own backboard is considered a try for goal. In (b) and (c), A1 has violated; throwing the ball against an opponent’s backboard or an official constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it strikes the official or the board. (4-4-5; 4-15-1, 4-15-2; Fundamental 19)

The four elements for having a backcourt violation are: there must be team control (and initial player control when coming from a throwin); the ball must have achieved frontcourt status; the team in team control must be the last to touch the ball before it goes into the backcourt; that same team must be the first to touch after the ball has been in the backcourt.

If A1’s pass hits the backboard, it’s considered a try (2021-22 NFHS Basketball Casebook 9.5 Situation), ending team control, thus no backcourt violation.

Call it a "try" (based on the ball hitting the backboard/ring/basket) and A1 can legally pick it up in the backcourt, and even start a possible new dribble.

However, the question says ring, not backboard. Is the ball touching the basket/ring the same as the ball touching the backboard?

It appears that IAABO allowed me to substitute the word backboard for basket/ring in #7 (see below, ball touching opponent's basket in backcourt for a possible illegal (double) dribble) but wouldn't allow me to substitute the word backboard for basket/ring in #48 (ball going from backcourt to frontcourt ring and back into backcourt).

Why allow the substitution of the word backboard for basket/ring in one question but not the other?

I should have gotten both #48 and #7 correct, or I should have gotten both #48 and #7 incorrect.

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#7 A-1 attempts a pass to A-2 in Team A’s backcourt. The ball hits Team B’s basket and deflects directly back to A-1 who catches the ball and starts a dribble. The official rules a legal play. Is this correct?

My answer: #7 No. Official is incorrect. Illegal (double) dribble.
IAABO answer: #7 No.

4-4-5: A ball which touches the front faces or edges of the backboard is treated the same as touching the floor inbounds.

4.15.1 SITUATION C: A1 attempts a pass to A2 during pressing action in A’s backcourt. The ball hits B’s backboard and deflects directly back to A1 who catches the ball and: (a) passes the ball to A2; or (b) starts a dribble. RULING: The pass against B’s backboard was the start of a dribble which ended when A1 caught the ball. In (a), the pass is legal action. In (b), it is a violation for a second dribble. (4-4-5; 9-5)

4.15.4 SITUATION C: After dribbling and coming to a stop, A1 throws the ball: (a) against the opponent’s backboard and catches the rebound; (b) against an official, immediately recovers the ball and dribbles again; or (c) against his/her own backboard in an attempt to score (try), catches the rebound and dribbles again. RULING: A1 has violated in both (a) and (b). Throwing the ball against the opponent’s backboard or an official constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it strikes the official or the board. In (c), the action is legal. Once the ball is released on the try, there is no player or team control, therefore, A1 can recover the rebound and begin a dribble.

Is the ball touching the basket/ring the same as the ball touching the backboard?

According to IAABO, apparently yes, it’s the same, at least in #7.

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Can we extrapolate what we've learned in #7 to #48?

I've sent an email to my local interpreter questioning this.

Comments?

[ilyazhito]

It is not the same, because a ball hitting the backboard does not reset the shot clock. A ball hitting the ring does.
However, you have a point that IAABO screwed the pooch with #48. A ball hitting the ring is a try, therefore there is no team control when the ball hits the ring (in the frontcourt). Thus, because there is no team control, the ball can legally be touched by A in their backcourt after a try. Because the ball was recovered in the backcourt following a try, A gets a full reset of the shot clock and a new 10-second count.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

... #48. A ball hitting the ring is a try, therefore there is no team control when the ball hits the ring (in the frontcourt) ...

Actually, according to 2021-22 NFHS Basketball Casebook 9.5 Situation, the ball hitting the backboard is a try.

2021-22 NFHS Basketball Casebook 9.5 Situation: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the ball against: (a) the team’s own backboard; Ruling: Legal in (a); a team’s own backboard is considered a try for goal.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

It is not the same, because a ball hitting the backboard does not reset the shot clock. A ball hitting the ring does.
However, you have a point that IAABO screwed the pooch with #48. A ball hitting the ring is a try, therefore there is no team control when the ball hits the ring (in the frontcourt). Thus, because there is no team control, the ball can legally be touched by A in their backcourt after a try. Because the ball was recovered in the backcourt following a try, A gets a full reset of the shot clock and a new 10-second count.

Not correct. A pass which hits the ring is not a try. The official must deem that the player was throwing for goal. It is a judgment call.

[Nevadaref]

Billy,
Strictly speaking the ball contacting the ring/basket is not the same as the ball striking the backboard at either end of the court.

If the thrown ball is stated to be a pass in #48, then this must be a backcourt violation on a test. In practice the official on the court is going to deem this a try for goal and allow play to continue. The only NFHS rules support for this not being a backcourt violation is the casebook play which you have cited and the text of that states backboard. Also this is a pretty new case play ruling. That used to be a violation as well.

For question #7, IAABO is incorrect. There is no NfHS rule extant stating that it qualifies as a dribble for a thrown ball to strike the opponent’s basket. The rule clearly states backboard, so IAABO has no rules support for deeming this a violation.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Strictly speaking the ball contacting the ring/basket is not the same as the ball striking the backboard at either end of the court. If the thrown ball is stated to be a pass in #48, then this must be a backcourt violation on a test ... For question #7, IAABO is incorrect. There is no NFHS rule extant stating that it qualifies as a dribble for a thrown ball to strike the opponent’s basket. The rule clearly states backboard, so IAABO has no rules support for deeming this a violation.

Agree. Thanks Nevadaref. Well stated.

IAABO seems to have conflicting interpretations on these two questions. That is what confuses me.

[ilyazhito]

A ball hitting the backboard, absent player control being gained by the other team, does not reset . A ball hitting the ring will, if the official judges the ball hitting the ring to be a shot (which it usually is).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

#7 A-1 attempts a pass to A-2 in Team A’s backcourt. The ball hits Team B’s basket and deflects directly back to A-1 who catches the ball and starts a dribble. The official rules a legal play. Is this correct? IAABO answer: #7 No.

4-4-5: A ball which touches the front faces or edges of the backboard[/COLOR][/B] is treated the same as touching the floor inbounds.

4.15.1 SITUATION C: A1 attempts a pass to A2 during pressing action in A’s backcourt. The ball hits B’s backboard and deflects directly back to A1 who catches the ball and: (a) passes the ball to A2; or (b) starts a dribble. RULING: The pass against B’s backboard was the start of a dribble which ended when A1 caught the ball. In (a), the pass is legal action. In (b), it is a violation for a second dribble. (4-4-5; 9-5)

4.15.4 SITUATION C: After dribbling and coming to a stop, A1 throws the ball: (a) against the opponent’s ]backboard and catches the rebound; (b) against an official, immediately recovers the ball and dribbles again; or (c) against his/her own backboard in an attempt to score (try), catches the rebound and dribbles again. RULING: A1 has violated in both (a) and (b). Throwing the ball against the opponent’s backboard or an official constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it strikes the official or the board. In (c), the action is legal. Once the ball is released on the try, there is no player or team control, therefore, A1 can recover the rebound and begin a dribble.

Why, in #7, does IAABO interpret the the ball touching the ring/basket to be the same as the ball touching the backboard?

Why would IAABO state that the answer for #7 is no, it’s not a legal play?

Had the ball struck the backboard the play would have certainly been an illegal (double) dribble.

But the caseplays regarding this situation state “backboard” not “basket”.

In this situation the ball hitting the “basket”, by rule, is the same as a player holding the ball and throwing it into the air and catching it without moving a pivot foot.

That’s legal.

If it’s not illegal, it’s legal.

This situation would definitely be illegal if the ball hit the “backboard”, or an official.

It did neither.

It hit the “basket”.

Any IAABO guys out there hear from their interpreters?

I'm still waiting for mine to reply to my email.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

#48 With four minutes remaining in the quarter, A-1, in the backcourt, throws a pass toward A-5 in the frontcourt. The pass hits the ring and rebounds untouched back to A-1 in the backcourt. The officials allow play to continue. Is this correct? IAABO answer: #48 No.

4-4-5: A ball which touches the front faces or edges of the backboard is treated the same as touching the floor inbounds.

9-9-2: While in player and team control in its backcourt, a player must not cause the ball to go from backcourt to frontcourt and return to backcourt, without the ball touching a player in the frontcourt, such that he/she or a teammate is the first to touch it in the backcourt.

2021-22 NFHS Basketball Casebook 9.5 Situation: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the ball against: (a) the team’s own backboard; (b) the opponent’s backboard; or (c) an official and catches the ball after each. Ruling: Legal in (a); a team’s own backboard is considered a try for goal. In (b) and (c), A1 has violated; throwing the ball against an opponent’s backboard or an official constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it strikes the official or the board. (4-4-5; 4-15-1, 4-15-2; Fundamental 19)

Regarding #48, here's what I heard for a few IAABO interpreters.

For some reason the NFHS doesn't specifically state a ball hitting the ring is considered a try. It only mentions the backboard in CB 9.5.

So technically Refresher question #48 is accurate because it stated a pass hit the ring.

In an actual game, the covering officials have it well within their authority to rule the thrown ball a try and allow play to continue.

Agree with all above regarding #48 as a stand alone question.

Question says “pass”.

Casebook play says a “thrown ball”, so in essence a “pass” that hits the “backboard” becomes a “try”.

But the casebook play clearly says “backboard”, not “ring” as we see in the question.

I fully understand the IAABO answer to #48, no, it is a backcourt violation.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

..the same as a player holding the ball and throwing it into the air and catching it without moving a pivot foot. That’s legal. If it’s not illegal, it’s legal.

Is there a better citation for this other than if it’s not illegal, it’s legal.