Backcourt ???

[BillyMac]

Another problem question from the 2022-23 IAABO Refresher Exam:

48) With four minutes remaining in the quarter, A-1, in the backcourt, throws a pass toward A-5 in the frontcourt. The pass hits the ring and rebounds untouched back to A-1 in the backcourt. The officials allow play to continue. Is this correct?

4-4-5: A ball which touches the front faces or edges of the backboard is treated the same as touching the floor inbounds.

4-12-3: Team control continues until:
a. The ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal.
b. An opponent secures control.
c. The ball becomes dead.

9-9-2: While in player and team control in its backcourt, a player must not cause the ball to go from backcourt to frontcourt and return to backcourt, without the ball touching a player in the frontcourt, such that he/she or a teammate is the first to touch it in the backcourt.

The four elements for having a backcourt violation are: there must be team control (and initial player control when coming from a throwin); the ball must have achieved frontcourt status; the team in team control must be the last to touch the ball before it goes into the backcourt; that same team must be the first to touch after the ball has been in the backcourt.

Is the ball touching the ring the same as the ball touching the backboard?

[bob jenkins]

We've discussed both of these (or substantially similar) situations before.

The general consensus was to treat this as if the ball had hit the backboard, even if that's not the literal reading of the rule.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

We've discussed both of these (or substantially similar) situations before. The general consensus was to treat this as if the ball had hit the backboard, even if that's not the literal reading of the rule.

Thanks bob jenkins. Yes, I do recall those Forum discussions.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The general consensus was to treat this as if the ball had hit the backboard ...

bob jenkins simplified this for me, but I'm still struggling with the interpretation, so I'll make it even simpler by taking the backboard/basket out of the equation.

A1 receives a pass from a teammate while both are in in A1's backcourt. A1 catches the ball then throws the ball across the plane of the division line with backspin such the ball hits the floor in the frontcourt, and bounces back toward A1, who catches the ball while A1 is still in his backcourt.

I've got backcourt? Am I wrong?

The four elements for having a backcourt violation are: there must be team control (and initial player control when coming from a throwin); the ball must have achieved frontcourt status; the team in team control must be the last to touch the ball before it goes into the backcourt; that same team must be the first to touch after the ball has been in the backcourt.

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

We've discussed both of these (or substantially similar) situations before.

The general consensus was to treat this as if the ball had hit the backboard, even if that's not the literal reading of the rule.

Unless of course we judge this to be a try because why else in the world would a pass from anywhere in the backcourt hit the ring... they'd have to be throwing to a player in the stands. It could be an errant pass perhaps with that much time remaining (assuming no shot clock).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

Unless of course we judge this to be a try because why else in the world would a pass from anywhere in the backcourt hit the ring... they'd have to be throwing to a player in the stands. It could be an errant pass perhaps with that much time remaining (assuming no shot clock).

Could be an "alley opp" pass.

In our study group some actually broached the topic of time remaining (no shot clock) implying that it couldn't be a last second try. But is wasn't a try because the question said "pass". But even a pass that hits the backboard (and maybe the basket) is considered a "try" for the purpose of losing team control (via a recent interpretation).

Call it a "try" (based on the ball hitting the backboard/basket) and A1 can legally pick it up in the backcourt, and even start a possible new dribble.

Who ever wrote this test for IAABO liked adding extra stuff, possibly for us to ignore, or possibly to trick us? Basket instead of backboard? Hesitates? Team not benefiting from an error requesting a timeout?

And others I haven't mentioned here on the Forum.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... But even a pass that hits the backboard (and maybe the basket) is considered a "try" for the purpose of losing team control (via a recent interpretation) ...

2021-22 NFHS Basketball Casebook 9.5 Situation: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the ball against: (a) the team’s own backboard; (b) the opponent’s backboard; or (c) an official and catches the ball after each. Ruling: Legal in (a); a team’s own backboard is considered a try for goal. In (b) and (c), A1 has violated; throwing the ball against an opponent’s backboard or an official constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it strikes the official or the board. (4-4-5; 4-15-1, 4-15-2; Fundamental 19)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

We've discussed both of these (or substantially similar) situations before. The general consensus was to treat this as if the ball had hit the backboard, even if that's not the literal reading of the rule.

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...ml#post1045686

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

A1 receives a pass from a teammate while both are in in A1's backcourt. A1 catches the ball then throws the ball across the plane of the division line with backspin such the ball hits the floor in the frontcourt, and bounces back toward A1, who catches the ball while A1 is still in his backcourt.

I've got backcourt? Am I wrong?

You are correct in this interp

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

A1 receives a pass from a teammate while both are in in A1's backcourt. A1 catches the ball then throws the ball across the plane of the division line with backspin such the ball hits the floor in the frontcourt, and bounces back toward A1, who catches the ball while A1 is still in his backcourt. I've got backcourt? Am I wrong?

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

You are correct in this interp

Thanks bob jenkins.

Now back to the real question:

48) With four minutes remaining in the quarter, A-1, in the backcourt, throws a pass toward A-5 in the frontcourt. The pass hits the ring and rebounds untouched back to A-1 in the backcourt. The officials allow play to continue. Is this correct?

2021-22 NFHS Basketball Casebook 9.5 Situation: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the ball against: (a) the team’s own backboard; (b) the opponent’s backboard; or (c) an official and catches the ball after each. Ruling: Legal in (a); a team’s own backboard is considered a try for goal. In (b) and (c), A1 has violated; throwing the ball against an opponent’s backboard or an official constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it strikes the official or the board. (4-4-5; 4-15-1, 4-15-2; Fundamental 19)

If A1’s pass hits the backboard, it’s considered a try (2021-22 NFHS Basketball Casebook 9.5 Situation), ending team control, thus no backcourt violation.

However, the question says ring, not backboard.

Is the ball touching the ring the same as the ball touching the backboard?

I believe that we've moved from the realm of facts to opinions, purpose, and intent, so I will be pleased to accept educated opinions.

Right now I’m leaning toward: 48) Yes. Legal play.

[ilyazhito]

Touching the ring and touching the backboard are mostly similar, but there are at least 2 situations where there is a difference. Touching the ring makes a missed free throw attempt legal, not touching the backboard. A freethrow touching the backboard does release players outside marked lane spaces to attempt to recover the rebound. In games with a shot clock, a try striking the ring resets the shot clock. A ball striking the backboard does not.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Touching the ring and touching the backboard are mostly similar, but there are at least 2 situations where there is a difference. Touching the ring makes a missed free throw attempt legal, not touching the backboard. A free throw touching the backboard does release players outside marked lane spaces to attempt to recover the rebound. In games with a shot clock, a try striking the ring resets the shot clock. A ball striking the backboard does not.

Thanks ilyazhito.

Agree that there are rule differences between the basket and the backboard, and they are not often interchangeable.

But in certain situations, as in my two exam questions, doesn't purpose and intent carry any weight?

Do you have an educated opinion to offer on one, of both, of my backboard/basket team/opponent exam questions?