Normal Landing ...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

If you can tell the player thought about it, we've went beyond "normal" landing.

What about a player who during a throw-in, while airborne, catches the inbounds pass after jumping from the frontcourt, lands solidly with one foot in the frontcourt, incorrectly believes that to put his other foot down in the backcourt would result in a backcourt violation, so he consciously hesitates while trying to maintain his balance while remaining on one foot for a second, but end ups losing his balance and his other foot falls into the backcourt?

Is that "normal landing"?

[bob jenkins]

replace "normal" with "otherwise legal"

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

replace "normal" with "otherwise legal"

In what context? Rule 9-9-3? A specific post in this thread?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Comment #2:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Billy:

With respect to your question, I never gave it much thought because I only concerned myself with "...and it makes no difference whether the first foot down is in the frontcourt or backcourt." That said I would rule A2's actions legal.

I would propose that the last sentence in R9-S9-A3 should read: "It makes no difference whether the player's first foot down is in the frontcourt or backcourt." This would remove all ambiguity.

What say you?

MTD, Sr.

P.S. Since IAABO Board #55 went defunct a few years back, Mark, Jr. and I are now Indivdual Members and thus only receive the Handbook and the Refresher Exam but not the answer key to the Refresher Exam. When you have a chance this week could you email me a copy of the Refresher Exam's answer key. Thanks.

Comment #6:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I do not have a problem with my proposed wording for R9-S9-A3, because in my "humble", , opinion it would bring it in alignment with how we adjudicate R4-S44. While not exactly like the IAABO Refresher Exam play, see NFHS CB Play 4.44.3B for a similar situation of indecision by an Offensive Player who is in Control of the Ball.

MTD, Sr.

Comment #9:

Originally Posted by BillyMac

What about a player who during a throw-in, while airborne, catches the inbounds pass after jumping from the frontcourt, lands solidly with one foot in the frontcourt, incorrectly believes that to put his other foot down in the backcourt would result in a backcourt violation, so he consciously hesitates while trying to maintain his balance while remaining on one foot for a second, but end ups losing his balance and his other foot falls into the backcourt?

Is that "normal landing"?

Comment #10:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

replace "normal" with "otherwise legal"

Comment #11:

Originally Posted by BillyMac

In what context? Rule 9-9-3? A specific post in this thread?

1) Let me first reply to Billy's Comment #9. My answer to your question is: Since A2's footwork with regard to the Traveling Rule (NFHS R4-S44) is legal, my answer is: Yes.


2a) Bob: Your Comment #10 caused me to pause and think about what I said in my Comments #2 and #6. In my Comment #2 I proposed that the last sentence of R9-S9-A3 should read: "It makes no difference whether the player's first foot down is in the frontcourt or backcourt.", while you proposed that it is should read: "The player may make an otherwise legal landing and it makes no difference whether the first foot down is in the frontcourt or backcourt."

2b) Which made me think (Me thinking! What a concept! LOL!). Whether the last sentence of NFHS R9-S3-A3 reads: i) as currently reads: "The player may make a normal landing and it makes no difference whether the first foot down is in the frontcourt or backcourt."; ii) your proposal: "The player may make an otherwise legal landing and it makes no difference whether the first foot down is in the frontcourt or backcourt."; or iii) my proposal: "It makes no difference whether the first foot down is in the frontcourt or backcourt."

2c) IAABO Question 40 is easy to adjudicate , because we can apply NFHS R4-S44-A2a2, and every since R9-S9-A3 was adopted almost 30 years ago, every NFHS Rules Interpretation and Casebook Play Situation, NCAA Men's/Women's A.R. and Rules Interpretation, and IAABO Refresher Exam Question that I can remember always had A2 with one foot landing in the Front Court first followed by the other foot landing in the Back Court second, a situation in which A2's foot work is governed by NFHS R4-S44-A2a2. But not once (that I can remember) has a situation where A2, after his/her foot first lands in the Front Court and then jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both feet in the Back Court, a situation in which A2's foot work is governed by NFHS R4-S44-A2a3.

2d) A2's foot work in both situations in 2c) are legal with regard to R4-S44-A2 and no Back Court Violation has occured in the situation governed by R4-S44-A2a2 but is the situation governed by R4-S44-A2a3 a Back Court Violation?

3) Billy with regard to your Comment #11, I think that I may have muddied the waters. I apologize.

MTD, Sr.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Comment #11, I think that I may have muddied the waters.

No you didn't "muddy" any water. Adding the word "hesitates" to the exam question "muddied" the water.

Enjoy.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

No you didn't "muddy" any water. Adding the word "hesitates" to the exam question "muddied" the water.

Enjoy.

Our generation (Boomers) made the best music!

MTD, Sr.

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

What about a player who during a throw-in, while airborne, catches the inbounds pass after jumping from the frontcourt, lands solidly with one foot in the frontcourt, incorrectly believes that to put his other foot down in the backcourt would result in a backcourt violation, so he consciously hesitates while trying to maintain his balance while remaining on one foot for a second, but end ups losing his balance and his other foot falls into the backcourt?

Is that "normal landing"?

Dumb move player(s)... Tweet and move on.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

What about a player who during a throw-in, while airborne, catches the inbounds pass after jumping from the frontcourt, lands solidly with one foot in the frontcourt, incorrectly believes that to put his other foot down in the backcourt would result in a backcourt violation, so he consciously hesitates while trying to maintain his balance while remaining on one foot for a second, but end ups losing his balance and his other foot falls into the backcourt?

Is that "normal landing"?

How the hell do you know what's in that player's mind and that's the reason they stepped the wrong way? Did it look like a normal landing or not? Come on now Billy!!! Jeez

That's the kind of craziness that just derails conversations.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

How the hell do you know what's in that player's mind and that's the reason they stepped the wrong way? Did it look like a normal landing or not?

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... we all know what a normal landing looks like in a real game, but what does it "sound" like in text on a written exam?

Let's go to the videotape ... Wait ... I'm being told ... We don't ... Never mind.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Yeah, I know that I'm reading too much into the question, but I'm a forty-plus year IAABO Refresher Exam veteran (never getting a perfect score but often coming very close) and know that answers often hinge on one tricky "got'cha" word. IAABO Refresher Exams can be intentionally tricky (not sure about NFHS exams).

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

What about a player who during a throw-in, while airborne, catches the inbounds pass after jumping from the frontcourt, lands solidly with one foot in the frontcourt, incorrectly believes that to put his other foot down in the backcourt would result in a backcourt violation, so he consciously hesitates while trying to maintain his balance while remaining on one foot for a second, but end ups losing his balance and his other foot falls into the backcourt?

Is that "normal landing"?

Yes it is a normal landing. Time to move on.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Yes it is a normal landing.

Now that's the kind of of answer I'm looking for to confirm my answer.

Thanks JRutledge.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Now that's the kind of of answer I'm looking for to confirm my answer.

Thanks JRutledge.

It really isn't. You post this crap all the time as if everyone needs to worry about your thoughts of a stupid test that most of us do not take and you are not working regular varsity. You said you are doing mostly middle school right? Is this going to prevent you from working the middle school title if you get this answer wrong? Seriously, we have serious officials trying to discuss serious things and you are talking about what is a normal landing as if none of us can figure it out. It is getting old. I think you get some sick thrill out of this crap and you do this all over the page. We get it, you have to parse out every word or meaning of something, but do the rest of us have to be subjected to that all the time in every topic?

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... you are not working regular varsity. You said you are doing mostly middle school right?

What difference does that make?

Same rules.

Middle school kids want to win just as bad as varsity kids, and they deserve officials that know the rules.

Yes, I have severe arthritis in my right foot.

Yes, I no longer run like a gazelle.

Yes, I have unilaterally and voluntary taken myself off the varsity list.

Varsity games "mean more" than middle school games in that wins and losses count toward something, post season play. Almost all middle schools in my local area are independent and do not belong to a league or conference, and don't keep standings. There are no post season middle school playoffs or tournaments. My lack of mobility should not impact varsity games, varsity standings, varsity seeding, varsity players, varsity coaches, varsity fans, or most importantly, my varsity partners. I won't allow it.

So, why should I not also give up middle school games?

My limited mobility must be weighed against my forty-plus years of experience; my availability to officiate difficult-to-assign mid-afternoon games; and my enthusiasm for officiating subvarsity (middle school, freshman, junior varsity) basketball games.

I've heard from many middle school coaches that they appreciate having a veteran official work their games, a veteran official who actually “wants to be there”. Most coaches smile and greet me warmly when I walk into the gym. They know that I know the rules, want to be there, and will give 100% effort.

Many middle school coaches are used to "brand new" rookie officials, some of whom don't yet know if the basketball is stuffed or inflated (some never will); or "washed up" guys who have never been a varsity official, or never will be a varsity official, who are there, not because they want to be there, but because they want the money. They just want to get in, get out, and get paid. Not me.

I'm four, or five, years into this now. I have yet to hear complaints. From coaches. From athletic directors. From site directors. From fans. From players. From colleagues. And most importantly, from my assigner.

I have told my assigner, on many occasions, that if he hears of any complaints about my lack of mobility from coaches, athletic directors, site directors, or my colleagues, to please let me know and then we can have a discussion about my future in officiating. Fewer games. Just middle school (not freshmen or junior varsity). Just girls. Or no games and just have me sell raffle tickets at the door of our meetings.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

What difference does that make?

Same rules.

Middle school kids want to win just as bad as varsity kids, and they deserve officials that know the rules.

Yes, I have severe arthritis in my right foot.

Yes, I no longer run like a gazelle.

Yes, I have unilaterally and voluntary taken myself off the varsity list.

Varsity games "mean more" than middle school games in that wins and losses count toward something, post season play. Almost all middle schools in my local area are independent and do not belong to a league or conference, and don't keep standings. There are no post season middle school playoffs or tournaments. My lack of mobility should not impact varsity games, varsity standings, varsity seeding, varsity players, varsity coaches, varsity fans, or most importantly, my varsity partners. I won't allow it.

So, why should I not also give up middle school games?

My limited mobility must be weighed against my forty-plus years of experience; my availability to officiate difficult-to-assign mid-afternoon games; and my enthusiasm for officiating subvarsity (middle school, freshman, junior varsity) basketball games.

I've heard from many middle school coaches that they appreciate having a veteran official work their games, a veteran official who actually “wants to be there”. Most coaches smile and greet me warmly when I walk into the gym. They know that I know the rules, want to be there, and will give 100% effort.

Many middle school coaches are used to "brand new" rookie officials, some of whom don't yet know if the basketball is stuffed or inflated (some never will); or "washed up" guys who have never been a varsity official, or never will be a varsity official, who are there, not because they want to be there, but because they want the money. They just want to get in, get out, and get paid. Not me.

I'm four, or five, years into this now. I have yet to hear complaints. From coaches. From athletic directors. From site directors. From fans. From players. From colleagues. And most importantly, from my assigner.

I have told my assigner, on many occasions, that if he hears of any complaints about my lack of mobility from coaches, athletic directors, site directors, or my colleagues, to please let me know and then we can have a discussion about my future in officiating. Fewer games. Just middle school (not freshmen or junior varsity). Just girls. Or no games and just have me sell raffle tickets at the door of our meetings.

You posted a test question that not everyone here takes that test. Did you get the answer wrong? And if you did do you bore them with the emails and correspondence that you do here? When we have test questions that are bad, we contact the people that wrote the damn thing.

I would expect this from a rookie, not someone that has been doing it nearly as long as me or longer. I get if a rookie has not seen enough basketball to know how to apply this basic rule, but not someone like you. And you keep bringing up these "what ifs" as if it helps the rest of us out.

Clearly, the moderators have left the barn. This used to never be the case or it would be addressed.

We get it you agonize over every single word on a test. But you do that here which is not the purpose of your personal social media page. People answer your questions and you still go on and on. My God man, doesn't this get old to you too?

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You posted a test question that not everyone here takes that test.

But I actually have the test question in front of me and have asked for help. And it isn't cheating. It's an open book test and we have been encouraged to answer questions in groups with colleagues. We've even been given citations for each question (but no answers). Do I have any colleagues on the Forum?

As I've stated earlier, if this situation occurred in a real game, most of us would easily and immediately interpret whether, or not, a "hesitation" impacted a "normal landing", and not think twice about it.

My interpretation is to ignore the word "hesitates". No violation.

Still waiting for an explanation about the relevance to this thread of JRutledge's varsity/middle school comment.

Should middle school officials be given second class status on the Forum?