Game Film Access

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tnolan

@JRut you've exceeded the use of 'associations' for this month.

I belong to 5 local officials' associations. Three in Illinois and 2 in Indiana. Everyone one of them has some different procedures and standards. We do not have a "chapter" that I hear people use that does everything from assigning to getting paid. We are independent contractors here (by law).

Originally Posted by tnolan

This sounds like what should or could be done here, but is not. The automatic portion may get a bit "spammy" after a while and if you're working 5-6 games a week, you might not be able to catch up...and understandably, I don't need to break down every game. Sometimes there's just nothing to clip.
This is why I think a better option would be a datastore of all the games, accessible to whomever wants them, but only admins and the specific crew.

No need to break down every game in detail. Again I watch videos for situations that I want to review. Often I just want to see body language or situations like the positioning of the crew when making a particular call. The video is for you individually and you do with that video what you wish. But I personally break down a lot of my games because there are things I want to see for myself and improve on for the next game.

I would definitely entertain the idea of being the administrator of the video share if it came down to that. Again, I think getting the schools on board is probably the hardest part. After that, if 10 out of 100 officials actually use and access the video...then that is what it is.[/QUOTE]

It was hard at first to get schools on the basketball side to buy in to sharing videos with the officials. Now it is common and I get most videos requested.

Originally Posted by tnolan

@JRut I could be misinterpreting, but it sounds like you're jumping through a lot of hoops and red tape to get film. So does the IACO have access to all of this film for their "global" training, and then as a benefit provide it to you upon request?

Not any hoops at all. An email to the association contact (different groups have different contact people) and they send them to you directly when the video is sent to them. All I have to do is give the date, schools, and the gender and I get them often within 24 of the request and sometimes less than a few hours. I personally never have to contact the school at all. Now, this is Illinois, a different process in Indiana and harder to get video. But some schools have streaming video from YouTube or some other site and send a copy of the game rather easily.

I am sure they could have access, but no one is going through every game to find things in games. Usually, if someone hears about a situation that might be controversial or a coach reaches out to the assignor and that assignor is aware of the situation at all and might clip up some plays and present them to a group or the crew. But most people are not that technologically savvy and rarely does any game become used unless a person knows how to use video on their own.

Getting the individual games is hardly ever a problem anymore. Football was almost never a problem because video has been a common tool for years to football coaches. Basketball it took coaches some time to get over the paranoia of how it would be used and they did not understand that officials used the video to get better.

Peace

[Jfpdi]

LocalLive is a service that started in the NY area. It has expanded to other states. The schools have the equipment installed and then the games are streamed live. Some schools require a password to see replays of games. If You click on a state on the map that is dark black it will list the schools using the service first and then all the other schools in the state. https://events.locallive.tv/states/NY

[tnolan]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The video is for you individually and you do with that video what you wish. But I personally break down a lot of my games because there are things I want to see for myself and improve on for the next game.

I am sure they could have access, but no one is going through every game to find things in games. Usually, if someone hears about a situation that might be controversial or a coach reaches out to the assignor and that assignor is aware of the situation at all and might clip up some plays and present them to a group or the crew. But most people are not that technologically savvy and rarely does any game become used unless a person knows how to use video on their own.

Peace

50% of reason is exactly that. I'd like it to be easier for myself, and clip my games when needed. I enjoy watching and breaking down film, and I while I can normally find the time to do so...I also feel like if there was a specific system in place, it would increase the want/need.
The other 50% is for everyone else. Chapter and district improvement, et al. Getting clips and going over them in meetings is great, but sometimes I feel like there's something to be said about reviewing plays and cases from your own games and area.

That's the other hurdle is the guy/gal behind the scenes of all the video isn't going to have the time to break down 10+ games a night, every night. And I understand that. Again, it's much more about having a working system in place (that can stay in place) so it can be easily utilized when needed, as needed, as often as needed.

[tnolan]

Is anyone using RefQuest?

Our NCAA group had it 2 years ago but then never used it.
It has since grown into a massive program for all things administrative within officiating, but it started with and still has some really nice video collaboration features.

I'd be interested to see if anyone has used the video portion and what they think of it from a user standpoint, as well as integration into board/group/chapter and costs, etc....

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tnolan

50% of reason is exactly that. I'd like it to be easier for myself, and clip my games when needed. I enjoy watching and breaking down film, and I while I can normally find the time to do so...I also feel like if there was a specific system in place, it would increase the want/need.
The other 50% is for everyone else. Chapter and district improvement, et al. Getting clips and going over them in meetings is great, but sometimes I feel like there's something to be said about reviewing plays and cases from your own games and area.

That's the other hurdle is the guy/gal behind the scenes of all the video isn't going to have the time to break down 10+ games a night, every night. And I understand that. Again, it's much more about having a working system in place (that can stay in place) so it can be easily utilized when needed, as needed, as often as needed.

Unless the schools send you the video automatically without you contacting them, not sure how much easier it is going to be. And I doubt that would happen because they would have no incentive to send video to some random person without you letting them know you are willing to get the video. We are not their main focus after a game and certainly not their main focus to send video to. I guess the only way it might be easier is if they post all their games online and all you have to do is view them, but that is not likely taking place either. And would take an entire system to make that happen.

College has Synergy and damn near all games are available from that system, but they have money and people that do that at their school as opposed to some coach and half of the staff might not even know how to do much more than turn on a computer.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tnolan

Is anyone using RefQuest?

Our NCAA group had it 2 years ago but then never used it.
It has since grown into a massive program for all things administrative within officiating, but it started with and still has some really nice video collaboration features.

I'd be interested to see if anyone has used the video portion and what they think of it from a user standpoint, as well as integration into board/group/chapter and costs, etc....

Yes, I work for the owner/operator of the system. We get videos from there all the time from different consortiums or portals. We were the guinea pigs for the system a few years ago and it has expanded. It is not used for entire game review.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by tnolan

Is anyone using RefQuest?

IAABO uses Refquest, but not as we've been discussing. Every few days IAABO sends out an email announcing a new video clip, or play summary (not the entire game) to those members who have asked for it (it's free, part of our dues, but not automatic, have to sign up, password protected). A question is asked about the clip (is it a foul, is it a violation, etc.), and members respond with comments. A few days later a play summary is posted by one of the four IAABO coordinators of interpreters.

It's an excellent program as used in this manner, but this manner doesn't allow you to view yourself. Other aspects of RefQuest probably deal with whole game videos.

I was posting these clips and summaries on the Forum (my "Fun With ..." series) until I discovered that I was violating some type of copyright law, and stopped before being put on double secret probation.

[tnolan]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Yes, I work for the owner/operator of the system. We get videos from there all the time from different consortiums or portals. We were the guinea pigs for the system a few years ago and it has expanded. It is not used for entire game review.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

It's an excellent program as used in this manner, but this manner doesn't allow you to view yourself. Other aspects of RefQuest probably deal with whole game videos.

So could a chapter alone utilize it as a training tool? Or the state association? And would it be a beneficial investment, rather than just reviewing clips/vids from YouTube, etc...?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tnolan

So could a chapter alone utilize it as a training tool? Or the state association? And would it be a beneficial investment, rather than just reviewing clips/vids from YouTube, etc...?

Sure, but it is a cost and would take a commitment. Indiana High School Athletic Association has an account and you can use it as a member official, but they hardly use it other than in some rare situations. So it is only good if actually used by the organization that has an account.

Peace

[hoopologist]

I can weigh in on the HUDL inquiry from the coaching perspective.

Basically and HUDL account can search and find other HUDL account owners and cue a video request through the HUDL interface (it's referred to as "Exchange" since it's, well primarily for exchanging).

These not only appear in the coaches HUDL account but also generate an email to all the coaches in the HUDL account. This means if the board has an account they can ask for game film whenever they like and can setup access for all of their members in the HUDL account.

I also have the ability to generate a download link for all of our stored footage - and that delivers an automated email to me in about 5 minutes - which I can forward to an official who has asked me directly. And, I have been asked, I'd say about 4 times for game film and happily shared it.

So if the board opted out of the HUDL account, you can still make a request of a coach and get a link which allows you to download the game film directly to your computer.

I've done a HUDL search and there are several boards that come up so some are already doing this.

[tnolan]

Originally Posted by hoopologist

I can weigh in on the HUDL inquiry from the coaching perspective.

Basically and HUDL account can search and find other HUDL account owners and cue a video request through the HUDL interface (it's referred to as "Exchange" since it's, well primarily for exchanging).

These not only appear in the coaches HUDL account but also generate an email to all the coaches in the HUDL account. This means if the board has an account they can ask for game film whenever they like and can setup access for all of their members in the HUDL account.

I also have the ability to generate a download link for all of our stored footage - and that delivers an automated email to me in about 5 minutes - which I can forward to an official who has asked me directly. And, I have been asked, I'd say about 4 times for game film and happily shared it.

So if the board opted out of the HUDL account, you can still make a request of a coach and get a link which allows you to download the game film directly to your computer.

I've done a HUDL search and there are several boards that come up so some are already doing this.

Thanks Hoop!

This is essentially what I (we) are doing now. I will admit that I do have fairly good luck with most coaches and AD's when asking for film via HUDL when needed. For personal/individual improvement, this does work pretty well.

Would there be any benefit to individuals having member accounts, or is it good enough to just have 1 board member control everything?

[tnolan]

Sort of switching gears here a little bit, but sort of within the same vein...

On top of the game film from local games, has any board/chapter had previous or current success with group training/improvement/evaluation and accountability during the season? I know that normally requires additional (sometimes retired) personnel, so that presents a challenge, but with video availability, it should make it much more feasible.

Within the past few years, it's obviously been difficult to put all the pieces in place, but additionally...I also feel like it's also been difficult due to the lack of officials. Accountability is difficult to enforce when you can't afford it. But I'm a firm believer that iron sharpens iron and in order for the area to improve as a group and become more consistent for these teams and coaches, there needs to be more than just a few meetings per year when we discuss a few rules and case plays.

Suggestions welcome.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I was posting these clips and summaries on the Forum (my "Fun With ..." series) until I discovered that I was violating some type of copyright law, and stopped before being put on double secret probation.

Who said it was a copyright violation? Clips of games for officiating training purposes should fall under fair use

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Brad

Who said it was a copyright violation? Clips of games for officiating training purposes should fall under fair use

I was thinking the exact same thing. And it is not like we are monetizing it here. But I know on YouTube I get a lot of flagging for situations that are not exactly used for anything but for training but still get a copyright infringement notice. But that does not happen in other places, mostly YouTube.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Brad

Who said it was a copyright violation? Clips of games for officiating training purposes should fall under fair use

Billy was posting clips that were made by Iaabo (might have even been his own chapter). It was someone from iaabo who told him to cease posting those.

I have to agree with Iaabo, as they created content by clipping, editing, and commenting the videos. They added to the raw game film in a substantial way and it is not proper for someone to just take that material and share it with others without compensating the creator.