Michigan State v Purdue

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

"6.4.1 SITUATION C: Following the jump between A1 and B1 to start the first quarter, the jump ball: (d) is caught by A1. RULING: In (d), Team B will have a throw-in because of the violation and the arrow for the alternating-possession will be pointed towards Team A’s basket. (4-12-1; 4-28-1)" This is not an AP throw-in, it's a throw-in for a violation. The arrow is SET to Team A in response to Team B having initial possession of the ball. So, the arrow is not SWITCHED b/c it was never set in the first place.

Originally Posted by Raymond

... it was never set in the first place.

At one time it was set at the illegal catch (holding equals possession, even if illegal holding, back then).

Great explanation (above post) of the current interpretation and the general concept behind it. But it hasn't always been that way. Once upon a time it was a possession, an illegal possession, but nevertheless a possession (holding the ball), arrow to other team (same as if nonjumper legally caught the ball, held it, and immediately traveled).

Only had it a few times in real games (both before and after the change), but had it on many, many refresher exams (both before and after the change). Always got it right, but it took a extra effort and "brain power". Never said that I didn't know it, it just took extra effort because it was a change from something different, "lose the ball and lose the arrow", that had been drummed into our brains for many, many years. Always look it up on refresher exam, double check just to be sure, why get a simple question wrong?

Like I said, I've now got this down pat, but only because I remember it as it's not "lose the ball and lose the arrow" anymore (after hearing "lose the ball and lose the arrow" at many, many meeting before the change). That works for me. Different strokes.

Originally Posted by Raymond

We don't get to consult with the forum in the middle of a game.

But I do get to slow down and think for a second, or two, a kind of "self consulting". Why rush? May even have a short tête-à-tête with my partner. Why not? How can it hurt?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

May even have a short tête-à-tête with my partner. Why not? How can it hurt? ...

Even in my very shortest pregame conferences, if the referee doesn't say it, I will, "If anything weird happens, let's get together and talk about it". While there certainly can be much weirder situations, a jumper illegally catching a jump ball, and/or a kicked ball on an alternating possession throwin, can certainly be considered weird, odd, or rare situations worthy of a tête-à-tête between partners. Why not? How can it hurt?

[Raymond]

My tete-a-tete, if I blow my whistle on an unusual play, is telling my partners what I called and how we adjudicate from there.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

My tete-a-tete, if I blow my whistle on an unusual play, is telling my partners what I called and how we adjudicate from there.

... and if your partner makes a call on an unusual play and kicks it, as in the original post, is his whistle, his call, and his adjudication enough of a tête-à-tête?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... and if your partner makes the call, and kicks it, as in the original post, is his whistle, his call, and his adjudication enough of a tête-à-tête?

If they tell me something wrong during their communication and...

a) I'm not the crew chief, I will make sure I communicate the proper adjudication/ruling. What the crew does from that point is not my call.

b) I'm the crew chief, we will adjudicate the play properly.

I have kicked a rule once in my career, that was this season in my first game back after a 23 1/2 month lay-off due to knee surgery and COVID. It involved the shot clock and one partner felt I was getting it wrong but didn't want to hold up the game. I reviewed the rule at halftime and informed both coaches and the table that I had messed up.

But my main point is that if you blow your whistle you should be laying out the succeeding steps to your partners, not asking "what do we do next". If you are getting something wrong, then someone should speak up quickly and concisely.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

If you are getting something wrong, then someone should speak up quickly and concisely.

Agree 100%. Everybody appreciates good partners.

Decades ago I spotted my first-time partner (top-notch, late-round-tournament-level official) kicking an out of bounds call on his line on a ball that came from my primary. I was 100% certain. No whistle from me, I simply put up my stop-sign hand, took several quick steps toward him for a tête-à-tête, and quietly said, "Did you get a good look at that?". He replied, "Yes", and I immediately backed off with no further comment. I have absolutely no problem with that part, maybe he did get a much better look than me. But at halftime he told me to never "question" any of "his" out of bounds calls ever again (in direct conflict to the accepted procedure (asking for help or offering help) that we're supposed use to handle such situations in our local area) in a tone that sent chills down my spine. Keep in mind that I didn't come running in with whistle blasting, pointing, and over-turning his call, like Mighty Mouse saving the day. Worked with him several times after that. Never offered him help again, even if he needed it. Forty-plus years, dozens (that's conservative) of times I offered help to partners, only partner to have ever said anything even close to that to me.

[Indianaref]

2007-08 Interpretations
SITUATION 3: During an alternating-possession throw-in for Team A, thrower A1 passes the ball directly on the court where it contacts (a) A2 or (b) B2, while he/she is standing on a boundary line. RULING: Out-of-bounds violation on (a) A2; (b) B2. The player was touched by the ball while out of bounds, thereby ending the throw-in. The alternating-possession arrow is reversed and pointed toward Team B's basket when the throw-in ends (when A2/B2 is touched by the ball). A throw-in is awarded at a spot nearest the out-of-bounds violation for (a) Team B; (b) Team A. (4-42-5; 6-4-4; 9-2-2; 9

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree 100%. Everybody appreciates good partners.

Decades ago I spotted my first-time partner (top-notch, late-round-tournament-level official) kicking an out of bounds call on his line on a ball that came from my primary. I was 100% certain. No whistle from me, I simply put up my stop-sign hand, took several quick steps toward him for a tête-à-tête, and quietly said, "Did you get a good look at that?". He replied, "Yes", and I immediately backed off with no further comment. I have absolutely no problem with that part, maybe he did get a much better look than me. But at halftime he told me to never "question" any of "his" out of bounds calls ever again (in direct conflict to the accepted procedure (asking for help or offering help) that we're supposed use to handle such situations in our local area) in a tone that sent chills down my spine. Keep in mind that I didn't come running in with whistle blasting, pointing, and over-turning his call, like Mighty Mouse saving the day. Worked with him several times after that. Never offered him help again, even if he needed it. Forty-plus years, dozens (that's conservative) of times I offered help to partners, only partner to have ever said anything even close to that to me.

He's just a dick. But an OOB call is still a judgment call, not a rules issue. I'm going to voice (well, not anymore, LOL) my thoughts when a rules issue comes up.

I once worked a D1 game with a veteran Final Four official who was going to administer a Technical Foul penalty incorrectly. I informed him of the proper adjudication and he told me "I don't care, I want to do it this way" (he didn't say it in a mean or demeaning way). I had done my part.

I guess b/c I didn't start officiating until I was 37 and had already been in the military 19 years, I've never felt intimidated by another official, no matter what their reputation or status.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... in a tone that sent chills down my spine ...

Originally Posted by Raymond

... intimidated by another official, no matter what their reputation or status.

Bingo.

His comments (especially his tone) to me as a newly appointed full time varsity (previously working a "split schedule", both varsity and subvarsity) official certainly didn't give me any confidence moving forward into the second half of the game, my next game, and my games the rest of the season.

Took me a while, and asking questions from colleague friends (never mentioned his name), but I eventually figured out that it was he who did something wrong, not me.

Decades later and it made such an impression on me that I remember it like it was last week.

Now, where are my car keys?