Block or Charge? Non-torso contact

[tnolan]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Then "most" are wrong. We properly called this a PC foul yesterday.

Problem is sometimes "most" are pretty high up on the ladder....js
I don't disagree, but much like verticality and handchecks...when you're outside of the majority but correct on the call it can make things difficult in our profession and you get the consistency spiel from the coaches.

My personal philosophies here are legal defender and OIC. And then as discussed, does the OIC warrant charge or was the defender selling snake oil to @BillyMac.

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

I agree. That's why a flop warning in high school basketball is overdue. It has eliminated much of the tomfoolery in men's college games around flopping, does not cost anything, and has a clear progression of penalties. If officials are willing to use the official flop warning early and often, teams will get the message.

I had an issue with a kid flopping earlier this month. I didn't get the chance to warn him before another breakaway play where I was Lead. He fell backwards in an attempt to fool me for the charge call with zero (I mean ZERO!) contact. I called a block. I didn't love that the ball went in and had to score the bucket, but....I reported and told the coach - sorry but there was zero contact on that play and your player flat out flopped. I call a block or a technical there, so please let him know he needs to stop flopping. Coach had no problem with that.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by tnolan

I had an issue with a kid flopping earlier this month. I didn't get the chance to warn him before another breakaway play where I was Lead. He fell backwards in an attempt to fool me for the charge call with zero (I mean ZERO!) contact. I called a block. I didn't love that the ball went in and had to score the bucket, but....I reported and told the coach - sorry but there was zero contact on that play and your player flat out flopped. I call a block or a technical there, so please let him know he needs to stop flopping. Coach had no problem with that.

Just because the coach did not have a problem does not indicate that the way you adjudicated this play is correct. The solution should never be to make up rules. There is no basis for calling a block on this play.

[tnolan]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Just because the coach did not have a problem does not indicate that the way you adjudicated this play is correct. The solution should never be to make up rules. There is no basis for calling a block on this play.

I don't disagree with that rules logic but the coach validation didn't provide confirmation for my decision. I'll admit that it was a poor call to make in hindsight...where the 2 pts was penalty enough for the bad defense.
Better decision would've been to try talking to either of them first in attempt to curb the issue. I think that too many people just continue with no calls and allow it to happen rather than addressing the issue in teachable moments so it doesn't become a problem down the line.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by tnolan

Better decision would've been to try talking to either of them first in attempt to curb the issue. I think that too many people just continue with no calls and allow it to happen rather than addressing the issue in teachable moments so it doesn't become a problem down the line.

While I have never pulled the pin on a technical foul, nor have I ever observed the pin being pulled, I have orally warned a few players over the years, "You know it's technical foul for faking a foul, better be careful".

[tnolan]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

While I have never pulled the pin on a technical foul, nor have I observed the pin being pulled, I have orally warned a few players over the years, "You know it's technical foul for faking a foul, better be careful".

I think this is a good use of the tool we're provided. Being able to warn with the technical, rather than ever applying it. I think if you've done everything you can do and there comes a time to make that decision, then you're backed up by the rules....but using it more as a "scare-tactic" so to speak, may serve better in the long run and be a more useful process.

[Pantherdreams]

I will leave out any discussion of flop/faking fouled/selling calls as that is a whole can of words that I've got some strong feelings about - beyond you shouldn't call a block because a kid falls and you don't like it. You call a block if its a blocking foul, a charge if its a charging foul.

Focusing on the initial post.

Issue with a lot of games and officials tends to be on driving contact where 1 or both players is displaced/knocked down etc (visibly disrupted) officials often seem to feel like for game control reasons they need a whistle.

IMO if a player has legal guarding position but the offense changes position and contact happens in a way that the defense is not clearly disadvantaged or displaced its not a charge. If the offense is initiating the contact and the defense is legal but the only person impacted is the flailing/off balance offense I'm good with no calls.

Full disclosure I am much more comfortable with multiple bodies on the ground and no air in whistle than a lot of my colleagues.