Captain

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

You're missing the point. It doesn't matter if a team member at the captain's meeting begins the game on the bench. A captain is defined in the rule book as one of the five players on the court.

Yes I did. Agree that that's the rule, but when referring to captains, I prefer to deal with practical aspect of identifying captains (for me that ends when they all show up at the meeting, while others like to narrow down the identification) rather than following the written rule (that assumes that some type of a captain is always one of five players on the court at any one time) to somehow identify a captain as players and substitutes come in and out of the game.

Right, or wrong, as soon as the numerous captains walk away from the pregame meeting, I don't ever think about captains again throughout the rest of the game.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Yes I did. Agree that that's the rule, but when referring to captains, I prefer to deal with practical aspect of identifying captains (for me that ends when they all show up at the meeting, while others like to narrow down the identification) rather than following the written rule (that assumes that some type of captain is always one of five players on the court at any one time) to somehow identify a captain as players and substitutes come in and out of the game.

Right, or wrong, as soon as the numerous captains walk away for the pregame meeting, I don't ever think about again captains throughout the rest of the game.

If the team member who shows up to the captain's meeting begins the game on the bench, then all that stuff you wrote is irrelevant when the game starts.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

If the team member who shows up to the captain's meeting begins the game on the bench, then all that stuff you wrote is irrelevant when the game starts.

I believe that I've got most of it covered.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

2-7-1: The officials must conduct the game in accordance with the rules. This includes: Notifying the captains when play is about to begin at the start of the game.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

For the jump ball, I just loudly state, "Everybody ready!", even if the "speaking" captain is on the bench, he can hear me.

Not in my pregame meeting, but I've had partners who will say to numerous captains at the end of the pregame meeting, "We'll be starting in two minutes (or whatever is on the clock)".

[Kansas Ref]

I remember back when I first started officiating ; it was 7th grade girls a & b gamesets. My partner [the Referee] was a grizzled ole veteran ref of 50 plus years experience who, offered to let me conduct the pregame , "well, do you want to tell them the weather or you want me to do it?", he asked. Puzzled momentarily by his description, I paused not understanding that by that he meant the pregame session. Though gracious in his offer, I relented: no way it was my first game, I was already too nervous. So, he proceeded and briskly at the T minus 5:00 minute mark loudly announced: "Coaches and captains to center court!". I observed that without delay the participants immediately discontinued any engaged task and attentively appeared at his behest as if it were an Utterance. The Referee began: "this game is like your school classroom, the coaches are the teachers and the refs are your friends so respect them both. Ladies show me your numbers, ok we got 10 and 24, now you two ladies listen up you're the leaders so go back and tell your teammates to play defense with your feet not your hands, and show sportsmanship, helping a player up if you accidentally knock her down. And coaches let's us know what kind of timeout you're wanting, good luck and have fun!". Boy oh boy those players and coaches sure did behave in what I can perhaps most accurately say was an"intentionally polite" manner towards that ref (and myself though perhaps by default). I mean you should've seen how those players always gave ball to yhe ref , hustling yo retrieve errant balls, and how both coaches said things like "sorry my bad ref. Guess you saw it better,
or good cal ref my girl needs to get better at that. You're probably asking yourself why is kansas ref rambling on and on, well it's probably bcz there something to be gained by the use of a formality despite the arguments for its extinction.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The captain is as outdated as two-handed set shots, laced basketballs, peach baskets, and chicken wire cages around the perimeter of the court, an archaic, anachronistic formality.

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

... there something to be gained by the use of a formality despite the arguments for its extinction.

Unlike the jump ball, that definitely should have become extinct with the invention of the alternating possession arrow (despite what Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. says), I do believe that there is still a place for the pregame coaches/captains/officials meeting. It sets the right tone for sportsmanship and honors the captains publicly in front of all the fans (full disclosure, I am the father of three children who have been captains in multiple sports in middle school, high school, and college).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The captain is as outdated as two-handed set shots, laced basketballs, peach baskets, and chicken wire cages around the perimeter of the court, an archaic, anachronistic formality.

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

... there something to be gained by the use of a formality despite the arguments for its extinction.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I do believe that there is still a place for the pregame coaches/captains/officials meeting. It sets the right tone for sportsmanship and honors the captains publicly in front of all the fans.

However: Rules regarding notifying captains when play is about to begin at the start of the game, captains addressing an official on matters of interpretation or to obtain essential information, captains requesting defensive match-ups, and the singular nature of the captain’s role; along with casebook plays regarding captains designating free throwers, and requests for timeouts; should all be destroyed by an Earth-impacting asteroid.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

However: Rules regarding notifying captains when play is about to begin at the start of the game ... should all be destroyed by an Earth-impacting asteroid.

Eliminating 2-7-1 (The officials must ... Notifying the captains when play is about to begin at the start of the game) will still leave us with 2-4-4 (The referee must: Be responsible for having each team notified three minutes before each half is to begin).

2-4-4 (possibly at the coaches/captains/officials pregame meeting), and a whistle prior to the jump ball (most mechanics), should suffice to get the game started in a timely manner without any element of surprise.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

captains requesting defensive match-ups ... casebook plays regarding captains designating free throwers, and requests for timeouts; should all be destroyed by an Earth-impacting asteroid.

All three changed to head coaches (and all players for timeout requests as already codified in the rulebook).

Simplified, and the way most of us actually do it in a real game.