Interesting Play

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... Camron Rust discovered possible exceptions to this adage in a recent thread about fumbles, which maybe not coincidentally, was also about travelling.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

... the travel rule is one that is based on listing what is legal and what is not specified as legal isn't.

Which, from this point on is to be referred to as "The Camron Rust Adage" Ⓒ 2021 Camron Rust

Add it to the old adage list, that includes, among others, "If it's not illegal, it's legal".

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Add it to the list, that includes, among others ...

You are where you were until you get where you're going.
Must have something in and nothing out.
Last to touch, first to touch.
Must sit a tick, don’t have to play a tick.
There's a difference between being tripped, and tripping.
Over the back isn't, on the back is.
Accidental isn't always incidental.
If you are not sure, don’t call it.
When the ball is dead, we must be alive.
Prevent if we can, enforce if we must.
Answer questions, not statements.
Anticipate the play, not the call.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

He should have a few dozen basketball officials from around the world on his live broadcast offering their opinions ...

He showed the video and got mixed opinions. One thing that all agreed on is that if she had started out on her knees that it would be legal for her to start a dribble and get up.

[Raymond]

If she were laying on her back, or sitting on her butt, or prone on her side, it would be legal for her to start a dribble and then rise up.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

If she were laying on her back, or sitting on her butt, or prone on her side, it would be legal for her to start a dribble and then rise up.

Absolutely agree, but she did none of those in the video, so those situations were not broached.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Absolutely agree, but she did none of those in the video, so those situations were not broached.

It's always legal to dribble and then stand up or sit down or roll over, so I don't know why everybody needed to agree that if she's on her knees it's legal for her to dribble and then stand up.

That is not something we needed confirmation for.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

It's always legal to dribble and then stand up or sit down or roll over, so I don't know why everybody needed to agree that if she's on her knees it's legal for her to dribble and then stand up.

Because it was the one thing that we could all agree on, for the obvious reasons as stated by Raymond.

Everything else was less obvious.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Because it was the one thing that we could all agree on, for the obvious reasons as stated by Raymond.

If that was the conclusion of that conversation, it was a very fruitful.

I had a discussion with my neighbor yesterday about climate change and we agreed that the earth revolves around the sun.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

If that was the conclusion of that conversation, it was a very fruitful ...

Which is why the conversation wasn't very fruitful, which was my point.

We also agreed that a basketball is inflated and is not stuffed.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

... we agreed that the earth revolves around the sun.

Nitpicking, but not true. The Earth and the Sun both revolve around the barycenter (center of mass) between them.

But I do understand your point.

Perhaps my point (a lack of agreement on the actual call) was too subtle.

Merry Christmas.

[Jay R]

Here’s a solution for the NFHS, adopt the NBA rule and allow players to stand up. Any rule that rewards hustle and means less whistles is good in my eyes.

[Bob Martin]

It seems to me if I was lying on my belly and wanted to get up I would rise to my knees first. Just a thought.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Bob Martin

It seems to me if I was lying on my belly and wanted to get up I would rise to my knees first. Just a thought.

There's always the "push up method".

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Bob Martin

It seems to me if I was lying on my belly and wanted to get up I would rise to my knees first. Just a thought.

Yeah, but the rule does not say going to your knees in itself is illegal. If it did, then that would solve the confusion.

Peace

[Kansas Ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

You are where you were until you get where you're going.
Must have something in and nothing out.
Last to touch, first to touch.
Must sit a tick, don’t have to play a tick.
There's a difference between being tripped, and tripping.
Over the back isn't, on the back is.
Accidental isn't always incidental.
If you are not sure, don’t call it.
When the ball is dead, we must be alive.
Prevent if we can, enforce if we must.
Answer questions, not statements.
Anticipate the play, not the call.

*Regarding your point #5: In a recent pregame chat with my crew, we shared our views on this type of action. A play where dribbler is attempting to drive past a defender [B1] who is in LGP and then trips over the foot of defender and falls down. A foul is expected to be called on B1. Or equally common, when A1 is trapped by B1+ B2, [with less than 2 feet of open space betwixt] then tries to force/split the trap, stumbles after contacting the leg of either B and falls down subsequently loses the ball, and a foul is expected to be called on either B. In both plays the foot, torso or leg of either B was there first and was maintained in normal position (no obtrusive extension). Collectively, we'd all observed amongst ourselves and others a foul was called on either B. So, we vowed to call these types of action correctly in our game that day; mindful of recognizing proper LGP by the either B. I had the first crack at it in the first qtr when an A1 was trapped by a B1+B2, who'd established and maintained their LGP, at the FT semicircle and tried to split them on a straightline drive try for goal. The A1 tripped on thigh of a B and fell down, lost the ball and a B advanced the ball for fast break score. No whistle from me or anyone e else. In transition the A coach ripped my azz [which I expected]: "Didn't you see that tripping foul?!" He exclaimed. "Now he's hurt", he said while pointing at his A1 limping on the court. And he called a timeout to replace the limping A. Then, he asked me again during the timeout why no foul was called. I replied to the A coach: "Hay coach, your was not tripped, he just tripped on the defender who was already there first. Coach any player has a right to a spot on the floor provided he gets there first." Then A coach retorted, "Sir, everybody calls that a foul, you can't just make up your own rules." I replied, "Coach, the other refs called that a foul because the defense was probably not in LGP, but on that play the defense was in LGP. If it was your players on defense I would no-call it the same way." He paused, looked a bit stunned, and said nothing else. But for the rest of that game, no other player tried to dribble-split force their way through traps, I observed them to subsequently make passes over the trap or employ stratagems that altogether avoided traps (e.g., speed dribbling around traps, backup dribb!es, step-thru passes, etc.). Ostensibly, the teams therefore adapted to how the game was being called.