Interesting OOB Play

[Cornellref]

I saw something interesting in a game today. After a made basket by Player A, the player's momemtum drove him out of bounds under the basket. Player B attempted a quick throw in and was touched by Player A. QUESTION: Using NFHS rules, What is the call (or no call) if contact by Playre A is a)accidental (momentum only) or b)on purpose (i.e. grabs the player's leg)? SLIM

[paulis]

accidental - I got nothing

on purpose - If A1 is out of bounds and intentionally makes illegal contact with B1, also out of bounds and attempting to make a throw in, I got an intentional foul on A1. Just as if A1 was in bounds and made illegal contact with thrower-in B1.

[Edited by paulis on Apr 20th, 2002 at 07:20 PM]

[Cornellref]

What if the accidental contact affected the throw in and caused a turnover? I'm thinking it should be a technical foul as the defense clearly gained advantage. More thoughts are welcomed.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Cornellref
What if the accidental contact affected the throw in and caused a turnover? I'm thinking it should be a technical foul as the defense clearly gained advantage. More thoughts are welcomed.

The intentional foul "takes care" of the turnover because it awards posession.

Remember - this is a live ball play, so a technical can only be charged for a non-contact foul (or possibly for fighting). No matter what the defender does, you have three options - personal, int. personal, flag. personal.

[mick]

Originally posted by Cornellref
What if the accidental contact affected the throw in and caused a turnover? I'm thinking it should be a technical foul as the defense clearly gained advantage. More thoughts are welcomed.

I may just have a do over.
mick

[Cornellref]

OK, I agree with an intentional if the foul was on purpose.

In the accidental case, however, I don't think a no call is good because the offense was clearly put at a disadvantage (the pass is affected). A do-over also hurts the offense since they were rushing to get a fast break and might lose a basket by doing a do-over. I don't think that an intentional is warranted for accidental contact though.

[mick]

Originally posted by Cornellref
OK, I agree with an intentional if the foul was on purpose.

In the accidental case, however, I don't think a no call is good because the offense was clearly put at a disadvantage (the pass is affected). A do-over also hurts the offense since they were rushing to get a fast break and might lose a basket by doing a do-over. I don't think that an intentional is warranted for accidental contact though.

Once in 30 millions plays this could happen with one of a dozen scenarios; does that make one in a billion chances that the throw-in play could actually be affected? I dunno.

If this happens at the 3rd grade or at a level up to the college (unlikely at higher levels), who cares?
Even if that throw-in team gets a free throw or two, what are the odds it'll go in, 25%? ...Then what are the odds of that free-throw affecting the final outcome, 8%...1%...0.0004%?
Blow the whistle, warn for the player to be careful and play on. Then it's done and you'll never see it happen again in your lifetime.
mick

[Richard Ogg]

If the contact is on purpose this one is easy - intentional.

If it is accidental in my judgment (and they're paying me to be there and to use my judgment) then I've got a no-call. Sure, the (new) offense may have just lost the ball on a freak play, but there is some implication that they are to use their brains! I can't imagine this rare play getting more rare by the (new) offense not being able to see the shooter go OOB from momentum.

Reminds me of a play in a MS league where there was no pressing. The offense tried a down-the-court pass which hit the defense in the back. The defender grabed the ball and started back down the court. The coach complained about me not inforcing the "no press" rule and I explained that the "no press" rule did not require the defense to hit-the-deck to avoid the pass. Â* He laughed, agreed, and we played on.

Same idea here. The inbounder needs to engage brain and help avoid incidental contact.

[Cornellref]

Thanks for all your input, this is what actually happened when I saw this. The referee near the play called a technical foul as the pass was released and incidental contact occurred. Perhaps in his judgement the scoring player touched the throw in player on purpose. But as we discussed, the correct call if that was that case should be an intentional foul. IMHO, if the contact was incidental but clearly put the offense at a disavtage, a personal foul would be the call.

[Brian Watson]

Don't think too hard or invent rules, it will just get you in trouble. If you need to call something because it affects the play, and he contacted the player it is an intentional, if it was the ball, whack him (of course this is summer ball so my allergies may cause my eyes to water affecting my eysight for brief moments).

If he tumbles out by accident or momentum and does not disturb the play let it go, if the other coach squawks, then give them their "official" plane violation warning. It is summer ball after all, it is not like there is a real scorer to record it anyhow.

[Edited by Brian Watson on Apr 23rd, 2002 at 07:11 AM]

[Hawks Coach]

Originally posted by Brian Watson
If he tumbles out by accident or momentum and does not disturb the play let it go, if the other coach squawks, then give them their "official" plane violation warning. It is summer ball after all, it is not like there is a real scorer to record it anyhow.

Can't see a plane warning unless the player clearly delays and intentionally remains oob to interfere with throw. If player A1 makes a basket, goess oob, and player B1 hurries to inbound before A1 has a chance to get back inbounds, you got nothing. Doesn't matter if B's coach squawks.