For NCAA Officials Only ...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You spend more time trying to dissect the things you will never do or apply in your career or life.

Right now Connecticut prep schools use NCAA shot clock rules. We may be using a high school shot clock (with rules to be determined) next year in Connecticut. So I have a certain degree of curiosity about shot clocks.

Which is why this situation in the IAABO Inside The Lines bulletin caught my attention and then I posted the situation.

I figured that the college guys would just say, "Yeah, that's correct, and we are aware of the contradictory language", but that didn't happen, and posts were made that I replied to, even though I was way out of my league, but I can read English, and I believe that something smells fishy about the situation answer based on the college experts (not sarcastic) on this thread.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

The answer to the question was correct.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

... but your interpretation of my comments is what is wrong. I agree with the IAABO answer to the situation given

Gotta go with the experts. I'd be foolish not to.

Originally Posted by Raymond

The answer to the question was correct.

So, false is correct.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

"turned off" and "remains off" are not synonymous.

Still confused by the IAABO answer wording (true or false), but who cares? Play on.

I should have stuck to only reading the NFHS section of the IAABO Inside The Lines bulletin, as I usually do.

I always avoid reading the FIBA section of the bulletin, I should probably also stay away from the NCAAM, and NCAAW, sections as well, staying in my lane.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Still confused by the IAABO answer wording (true or false), but who cares? Play on.
.

There ARE situations where the shot clock is turned back on (and set to 20). The OP is NOT one of those. Leave the shot clock off in the OP. So FALSE is correct.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

There ARE situations where the shot clock is turned back on (and set to 20). The OP is NOT one of those. Leave the shot clock off in the OP. So FALSE is correct.

Ruling: ... Turn the shot clock off. Otherwise, Team A would never get their full 30 seconds that they are entitled to by rule.

Thank you.

That's what I thought at first but became distracted as the thread progressed (posts alluding to the shot clock being turned back on and set to 20 seconds).

No need for any further explanation (there are situations where the shot clock is turned back on and set to 20), it would probably confuse me more, and like JRutledge alluded to, since NCAA shot clocks are only used in Connecticut private prep school varsity games, and I only "limp" through subvarsity (mostly middle school and freshman) games at this point in my career, and since Connecticut public and Catholic schools currently don't use shot clocks (nor do we know the exact shot clock rules these schools will use in the future, if there is a future), there is no pressing need for me to fully understand NCAA shot clock rules.

Next time I have an NCAA shot clock rule question about a college game that I watch on television, or see live, I'll come to you college guys for an answer.

[Raymond]

Billy, let's see if we can give you some insight into the rule:

With 29 seconds left in the first half Team B steals the ball in it's back court. The shot clock is turned off because we're under 30 seconds:

1) At the 26 second mark, while still in the back court B2 commits a travel.

Team A now has a front court throw-in at one of the four designated spots, what should be done with the shot clock?

2) At the 26 second mark, after advancing to the front court B2 commits a travel.

Team A now has a back court throw-in at a designated spot nearest the violation, what should be done with the shot clock?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

...let's see if we can give you some insight into the rule ...

Thanks for reminding me just how much I don't know about NCAA shot clock rules. My fat, dumb, and happy "I don't know what I don't know" just turned into an embarrassing "I don't know".

But you've got my curiosity piqued. Answers with short explanations would be appreciated when you have a few extra minutes.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

... let's see if we can give you some insight into the rule ...

Common sense tells me that when control switches from one team to another (turnover) that team now in control should have the full thirty seconds (if there's that much time left in the period) to hit the rim with a shot.

That's based my common sense, and not based on my knowledge of NCAA shot clock rules, which I'm pretty sure are much more complicated than that.

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Billy, let's see if we can give you some insight into the rule:

With 29 seconds left in the first half Team B steals the ball in it's back court. The shot clock is turned off because we're under 30 seconds:

1) At the 26 second mark, while still in the back court B2 commits a travel.

Team A now has a front court throw-in at one of the four designated spots, what should be done with the shot clock?

2) At the 26 second mark, after advancing to the front court B2 commits a travel.

Team A now has a back court throw-in at a designated spot nearest the violation, what should be done with the shot clock?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

In 1, set the shot clock to 20 seconds. In 2, the shot clock remains off. The reasoning behind that is that 30 seconds include both the 10 seconds to cross from the backcourt to the frontcourt and 20 seconds to get a shot off while in the frontcourt.

In situation 1, since A receives the ball in the frontcourt, they do not need the additional 10 seconds to cross the division line. However, they do need time to cross the division line in 2. Because the full reset causes the shot clock to be greater than the game clock, the shot clock is turned off.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Right now Connecticut prep schools use NCAA shot clock rules. We may be using a high school shot clock (with rules to be determined) next year in Connecticut. So I have a certain degree of curiosity about shot clocks.

Which is why this situation in the IAABO Inside The Lines bulletin caught my attention and then I posted the situation.

I figured that the college guys would just say, "Yeah, that's correct, and we are aware of the contradictory language", but that didn't happen, and posts were made that I replied to, even though I was way out of my league, but I can read English, and I believe that something smells fishy about the situation answer based on the college experts (not sarcastic) on this thread.

OK, that would have been nice to know, but my point stands. You worry about things that those are not having an issue with. If the shot clock is set to 20 seconds after a stoppage of play where the team gets shot clock is under the game clock time, then the shot clock should be on. If the time is under 20 (or 30) seconds, it does not matter now, does it? Again, not that hard to understand unless you are really trying to not understand.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

In 1, set the shot clock to 20 seconds. In 2, the shot clock remains off. The reasoning behind that is that 30 seconds include both the 10 seconds to cross from the backcourt to the frontcourt and 20 seconds to get a shot off while in the frontcourt.

In situation 1, since A receives the ball in the frontcourt, they do not need the additional 10 seconds to cross the division line. However, they do need time to cross the division line in 2. Because the full reset causes the shot clock to be greater than the game clock, the shot clock is turned off.

Are you sure? What if the offense throws the ball to the BC? They still could have a 10-second count.

Peace

[ilyazhito]

They'll still have the count. However, since they have frontcourt possession already, they do not need the extra 10 seconds.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

They'll still have the count. However, since they have frontcourt possession already, they do not need the extra 10 seconds.

It's not FC possession, it's a FC adjacent throw-in. The thrower-in has neither back court nor front court status while the ball is at their disposal.

[BillyMac]

The NCAA seems to have many nuances regarding shot clock rules that appear to go beyond simply giving a team about a half a minute to hit the rim after a change of possession. Frontcourt or backcourt. Less time in period than on shot clock. Sometimes resets to 20 seconds. Kicking or punching violations. Legally touched inbounds. Missed free throw is controlled. Held ball (not the same when offensive or defensive team has alternating possession arrow).

As a non-college official, these are the nuances that I'm aware of (yet may not fully understand). There are probably more. Makes me hope that if Connecticut goes to a high school shot clock that the shot clock rules are as simple as possible.

I'm a pretty good rules guy, so if Connecticut goes to "complex" (NCAA-type) high school shot clock rules I'm sure that I will be able to study and fully understand them, but we've got a few outstanding (great physical shape, understand the game, understand advantage and disadvantage, great game management and people skills, get calls right almost every call, great partners, etc.) varsity guys who are not necessarily great "rules" guys, who may struggle.

And, of course, we've got guys at the table at some high schools who aren't the sharpest tools in the shed.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The NCAA seems to have many nuances regarding shot clock rules that appear to go beyond simply giving a team about a half a minute to hit the rim after a change of possession. Less time in period than on shot clock. Kicking or punching violations. Legally touched inbounds. Missed free throw is controlled. Held ball (not the same when offensive or defensive team has alternating possession arrow).

As a non-college official, these are the nuances that I'm aware of (yet may not fully understand). There are probably more. Makes me hope that if Connecticut goes to a high school shot clock that the shot clock rules are as simple as possible.

...

And, of course, we've got guys at the table at some high schools who aren't the sharpest tools in the shed.

All that stuff you listed are reasons why I'm glad my state has not gone to a shot clock for HS. The NFHS is not a stellar rules-writing organization, there would be a lot of confusion; that's not even taking into consideration the competency of table crews or rules discipline of fellow officials.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

The NFHS is not a stellar rules-writing organization, there would be a lot of confusion ...

The NFHS has already demonstrated their confusion by contradictory rules regarding ten second violations. The NFHS shot clock rule says to use the shot clock to time ten seconds (starts on a touch, with no visual count), yet the NFHS rule regarding ten second violations "still" says to start ten seconds on control, apparently leaving the "final" decision up to each individual state as to how to properly handle this apparent contradiction, especially when an inbounds pass in the backcourt is defected around like a ping pong ball before control, and/or when the shot clock is turned off with less than 35 seconds in the period (visual count).