jumper

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by Raymond

NCAA-Men's:
RULE 2 / OFFICIALS AND THEIR DUTIES
Section 11. Duties of Shot-Clock Operator
The shot-clock operator shall:
Art. 6. Stopping and resetting the shot clock:
d. Reset to 20 seconds when the following occurs:
8. During a jump ball, one team causes the ball to be out of bounds and the other team is awarded the ball for a throw-in in the frontcourt.

Causing the ball to go OOB on the jump ball would mean the shot clock never started, yet we still set it to 20 seconds if the throw-in is adjacent to the FC.

It's illogical, but that's the rule that's there, so I'll enforce it that way if I work NCAA men's ball.

JRut, are you saying that NBA officials, both male and female, tend to come from the women's college ranks? That's a surprise, but with the rules aligning between NCAAW, that makes sense in some weird way.

Anyway, the jump ball violation would have both AP and shot clock implications.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

It's illogical, but that's the rule that's there, so I'll enforce it that way if I work NCAA men's ball.

JRut, are you saying that NBA officials, both male and female, tend to come from the women's college ranks? That's a surprise, but with the rules aligning between NCAAW, that makes sense in some weird way.

Anyway, the jump ball violation would have both AP and shot clock implications.

NBA officials tend to come from their system. There is no direct pathway for the NBA with people that work college basketball. There might be officials that have college basketball experience, but that is not how they are getting identified and used. College basketball has almost nothing to do with the NBA from an evaluator standpoint or how they train their officials.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

NBA officials tend to come from their system. There is no direct pathway for the NBA with people that work college basketball ...

I'm not disputing what JRutledge states, he seems confident and seems to know what he's talking about, he works top-notch scholastic and college games and has been a trainer at many basketball officiating camps all over the Midwest, and beyond, probably knows several professional basketball officials, I've only worked scholastic games here in my little corner of Connecticut and have only known just a few professional basketball officials.

I'm just curious as to how someone can be identified as a potential professional basketball official, receive professional training, and then begin to make their way up the professional ladder, with little prior scholastic or collegiate basketball officiating experience.

Perhaps JRutledge is referring to professorial training/evaluation/recruiting camps, just like we have scholastic and collegiate training/evaluation/recruiting camps?

Want to be a professional official? Start by attending so-and-sos professional camp? Little prior scholastic or collegiate basketball officiating experience required? Previous success and accolades at scholastic or collegiate basketball officiating not necessary? We'll teach you the professional way from the get-go? Fastest way up the officiating ladder to an NBA or a WNBA career? Guaranteed, or your money back?

All the very few guys that I know in the professional ranks were previously outstanding scholastic and collegiate basketball officials.

I wonder how many top-notch professional basketball officials started out by working scholastic middle school, freshman, or junior varsity games to begin their climb up the officiating ladder?

Maybe one can start officiating at the college level with no scholastic experience; or maybe one can start officiating at the professional level with no scholastic or college experience?

Maybe there's not just one long ladder, but several ladders, and one can chose, or not chose, to switch ladders, or start on any ladder that they wish to start.

As anyone can easily tell, I'm way out of my league in regard to this topic. Outside my wheelhouse. Fish out of water.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'm not disputed what JRutledge states, he seems confident and seems to know what he's talking about.

I'm just curious as to how someone can be identified as a potential professional basketball official, receive professional training, and then begin to make their way up the professional ladder, with little prior scholastic or collegiate basketball officiating experience.

Perhaps JRutledge is referring to professorial training/evaluation/recruiting camps, just like we have scholastic and collegiate training/evaluation/recruiting camps?

Want to be a professional official? Start by attending so-and-sos professional camp? Little prior scholastic or collegiate basketball officiating experience required? Previous success and accolades at scholastic or collegiate basketball officiating not necessary? We'll teach you the professional way from the get-go? Fastest way up the officiating ladder to an NBA or a WNBA finals? Guaranteed, or your money back?

All the very few guys that I know in the professional ranks were previously outstanding scholastic and collegiate basketball officials.

I wonder how many top notch professional basketball officials started out by working scholastic middle school, freshman, or junior varsity games to begin their climb up the officiating ladder?

The NBA system feels that many officials who have worked extensive HS and college basketball schedules have picked up bad habits that have to be completely undone and/or have been exposed to a lot of bad advice from local veterans. If they see a brand new official working rec leagues or in some sort of camp and they like their look, athleticism, and run, they will snatch them up. They will want them to work games while they are part of the NBA Grassroots program, but they don't care what level they are working, they just want them to work games and see plays. Working NCAA-Women's helps out in that the coverage areas and mechanics are pretty much the same. Working off-season Pro-Am's and adult rec leagues helps them see above-the-rim and athletic plays.

[Raymond]

Also, there are college supervisors out there who don't like "NBA track" refs on their rosters, just like there are HS assignors/commissioners who are inhospitable to college officials.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

The NBA system feels that many officials who have worked extensive HS and college basketball schedules have picked up bad habits that have to be completely undone and/or have been exposed to a lot of bad advice from local veterans. If they see a brand new official working rec leagues or in some sort of camp and they like their look, athleticism, and run, they will snatch them up. They will want them to work games while they are part of the NBA Grassroots program, but they don't care what level they are working, they just want them to work games and see plays ...

Thanks Raymond. Great explanation regarding a topic that I was very unfamiliar with.

I naively believed that outstanding scholastic basketball officials became college basketball officials and that outstanding college basketball officials became professorial basketball officials; using their prior experience and success to move onto the next level.

Maybe that was true decades ago, but is, apparently, no longer true today.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Maybe that was true decades ago, but is no longer true today.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The days of them giving a D1 college guy an NBA opportunity are basically over just on watching them and giving them a shot ..

Times change. This is not your father's ladder any more.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Thanks Raymond. Great explanation regarding a topic that I was very unfamiliar with.

I naively believed that outstanding scholastic basketball officials became college basketball officials and that outstanding college basketball officials became professorial basketball officials; using their prior experience and success to move onto the next level.

Maybe that was true decades ago, but is no longer true today.

There are officials that worked their first D1 game that never worked a high school varsity game. IJS.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Working off-season Pro-Am's ...

A new non-scholastic, non-collegiate, officiating training and assigning organization just started here in Connecticut. Their raison d'être is to train and assign officials for the Greater Hartford Pro-Am Summer Basketball League. They recruited guys from my local scholastic IAABO board, but were not only interested in taking the most experienced, and the best of the best, but are willing to train anybody who wanted to learn NBA rules and mechanics.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'm not disputed what JRutledge states, he seems confident and seems to know what he's talking about, he works top-notch scholastic and college games and has been a trainer at many basketball officiating camps all over the Midwest, and beyond, probably knows several professional basketball officials, I've only worked scholastic games here in my little corner of Connecticut and have only known just a few professional basketball officials.

I'm just curious as to how someone can be identified as a potential professional basketball official, receive professional training, and then begin to make their way up the professional ladder, with little prior scholastic or collegiate basketball officiating experience.

Perhaps JRutledge is referring to professorial training/evaluation/recruiting camps, just like we have scholastic and collegiate training/evaluation/recruiting camps?

Want to be a professional official? Start by attending so-and-sos professional camp? Little prior scholastic or collegiate basketball officiating experience required? Previous success and accolades at scholastic or collegiate basketball officiating not necessary? We'll teach you the professional way from the get-go? Fastest way up the officiating ladder to an NBA or a WNBA career? Guaranteed, or your money back?

All the very few guys that I know in the professional ranks were previously outstanding scholastic and collegiate basketball officials.

I wonder how many top notch professional basketball officials started out by working scholastic middle school, freshman, or junior varsity games to begin their climb up the officiating ladder?

Maybe one can start officiating at the college level with no scholastic experience; or maybe one can start officiating at the professional level with no scholastic or college experience?

You miss the point as always by taking some statement without understanding any context. I never said that an official that is in the NBA never worked in their life a high school game or middle school game in their career. I said that you are not going to get into the pro or NBA system by working a college game and all of a sudden you are in the G-League or WNBA. Just like you will not work D1 game without going to a D1 camp of a particular conference. They just do not pick you off the middle school and put you in the NBA the next game. The NBA has a system, tryouts, and applications to file, and then you might get picked and identified in their system. The days of them giving a D1 college guy an NBA opportunity are basically over just on watching them and giving them a shot. The WNBA is used for prospects who they are trying to get experience or are identified as a likely candidate.

Now if you have some specific examples, let me know.

Peace