Ball Hitting Basket Ring

[bob jenkins]

I know that the ball hitting the opponent's backboard is the same as the ball hitting the court in-bounds (4-4-5). Does that apply when the ball hits the basket?

Play: B1 gets a defensive rebound. B1 attempts a pass to B2 on the opposite side of the court. The ball hits (a) A's backboard, or (b) A's basket (ring), and rebounds directly to B1. B1 then dribbles. Ruling?

In (a) an illegal (double) dribble violation (see 4.15.1 C). In (b) ?????

[SNIPERBBB]

I think the only thing you can have, by the book, is if B1 moved to catch the ball resulting in a travel as in. 4.44.3 C

[Nevadaref]

I would treat the hall striking only the ring the same as if the player merely tossed the ball up into the air and caught it again.
My reasoning for doing such is that the rules book specifies backboard in the passage which states that action constitutes a dribble. As Bob is aware the ring/basket is not mentioned.
Also, the ball does not contact the floor or an official, so we have no rule that covers the described action.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

... the rules book specifies backboard in the passage which states that action constitutes a dribble ... the ring/basket is not mentioned ... so we have no rule that covers the described action.

Agree. If it's not illegal, it's legal.

Purpose and intent may handle it, but it's a stretch when the casebook play specifically, and only, mentions "backboard".

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I would treat the hall striking only the ring the same as if the player merely tossed the ball up into the air and caught it again.
My reasoning for doing such is that the rules book specifies backboard in the passage which states that action constitutes a dribble.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Purpose and intent may handle it, but it's a stretch when the casebook play specifically, and only, mentions "backboard".

Those seem to be the two options, I agree.

Would you rule the same if:

Play: A1 dribbles on a breakaway At the FT line,(a) A1 tosses the ball off his own back board, catches the ball in the air and dunks it. (b) Attempts to toss the ball off the backboard, but the ball hits the ring and rebounds to A1 who catches the ball in the air and dunks it.

Ruling: (a) legal. (b) ????

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

A1 dribbles on a breakaway At the FT line ... Attempts to toss the ball off the backboard, but the ball hits the ring and rebounds to A1 who catches the ball in the air and dunks it.

Is bob jenkins's insinuating that this is an additional illegal dribble?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Those seem to be the two options, I agree.

Would you rule the same if:

Play: A1 dribbles on a breakaway At the FT line,(a) A1 tosses the ball off his own back board, catches the ball in the air and dunks it. (b) Attempts to toss the ball off the backboard, but the ball hits the ring and rebounds to A1 who catches the ball in the air and dunks it.

Ruling: (a) legal. (b) ????

As you have written, case (a) is legal due to a casebook ruling. I’ll note that the rationale of that casebook play was modified just this year to make tossing the ball off one’s own backboard a try for goal.
Case (b) is more difficult because the ball striking the ring is not automatically considered a try for goal. For example, a pass which strikes the ring would not reset the shot clock should one be in use. Therefore, if the official does not deem this action a try, then it must be treated as a dribble which does not strike the floor. Now we must consider if the player who threw the ball lifted his pivot foot AND returned it to the floor prior to touching the ball again. If so, then an illegal dribble violation has occurred (what the NFHS casebook now labels a traveling violation, but used to list as an illegal dribble). If not, then the action is legal.

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree. If it's not illegal, it's legal.

Purpose and intent may handle it, but it's a stretch when the casebook play specifically, and only, mentions "backboard".

The casebook play also specifically states "the ball hits B's backboard and bounces directly back to A1." Question: What if the ball hits B's backboard, then the ring and then to A1? Would it be legal for A1 to start a dribble? IMHO if A1 started a dribble I would rule a violation in all three situations (backboard only, backboard+ring, ring only) to be consistent in not giving A1 an unfair advantage not intended by the existing rule.

[SNIPERBBB]

What advantage would A1 get if the ball came straight to him, didnt hit the floor and he didnt move?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by billyu2

What if the ball hits B's backboard, then the ring and then to A1? Would it be legal for A1 to start a dribble?

4.15.1 SITUATION C ... The pass against B’s backboard was the start of a dribble which ended when A1 caught the ball ... it is a violation for a second dribble.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I would treat the hall striking only the ring the same as if the player merely tossed the ball up into the air and caught it again.

4.44.3 SITUATION C: (a) A1 tosses the ball from one hand to the other while keeping his/her pivot foot in contact with the floor; or (b) A1 throws the ball over the head of B1 and then takes several steps before catching it. RULING: Legal in (a), but a traveling violation in (b). In (b), since the ball did not touch the floor, the tossing and subsequent catch is illegal. (9-4)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

...see 4.15.1 C ...

4.15.1 SITUATION C: A1 attempts a pass to A2 during pressing action in A’s backcourt. The ball hits B’s backboard and deflects directly back to A1 who catches the ball and: (a) passes the ball to A2; or (b) starts a dribble. RULING: The pass against B’s backboard was the start of a dribble which ended when A1 caught the ball. In (a), the pass is legal action. In (b), it is a violation for a second dribble. (4-4-5; 9-5)

4-4-5: A ball which touches the front faces or edges of the backboard is treated the same as touching the floor inbounds; see also 4-15-1.

4-15-1: It is not a part of a dribble when the ball touches a player’s own backboard.