IL Test Question

[bob jenkins]

49. Team A violates during the game's opening jump ball. Which of the following is true?

A. The AP arrow is set to team B's basket when the throw-in is completed.

B. The AP arrow is set to team A's basket when the throw-in is completed.

C. The AP arrow is set to team B's basket when the ball is placed at team B's disposal for the throw-in.

D. None of the above.

[BillyMac]

When they first invented the alternating possession arrow, the rule used to be (paraphrased), "Lose the ball. Lose the arrow".

[BillyMac]

My guess:

E) The AP arrow is set to team A's basket when the ball is placed at team B's disposal for the throw-in.

4-3: Alternating-possession control is established and the initial direction of the possession arrow is set toward the opponent’s basket when:
ART. 3 The ball is placed at the disposal of the thrower after:
a. A violation during or following the jump before a player secures control.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

4-3: Alternating-possession control is established and the initial direction of the possession arrow is set toward the opponent’s basket when: ART. 3 The ball is placed at the disposal of the thrower after:
a. A violation during or following the jump before a player secures control.

Tip o' the hat to Raymond, who in another recent thread reminded us of this rule.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

When they first invented the alternating possession arrow, the rule used to be (paraphrased), "Lose the ball. Lose the arrow"

On a play where the jumper illegally catches the ball, the rationale was it's a possession (an illegal possession) and control, and thus non-violating team should get the ball for the violation and non-violating team get the arrow because the violating team had control first.

Quoth the Raven, “Nevermore.”

I can't remember how other jump ball violations were handled.

How about a little help Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.? Make yourself useful.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

On a play where the jumper illegally catches the ball, the rationale was it's a possession (an illegal possession) and control, and thus non-violating team should get the ball for the violation and non-violating team get the arrow because the violating team had control first.

Quoth the Raven, “Nevermore.”

I can't remember how other jump ball violations were handled.

How about a little help Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.? Make yourself useful.

Nov. 13/Sat.(12:17pmEST), 2021

Billy:

1) I just now saw your above request because I have been busy this week and will continue to be busy the rest of the weekend.

2) I stopped reading any further comments in order to respond to your request and from what I read I really do not need to read any further. That said, I know that the is a thread regarding this play in the Forum from about 9 or 10 years ago. Monday morning I will look up the thread as well as climb up into the attic (yes, for this play I will climb up into the attic, LOL) and find the actual Casebook Plays (from as early as the late 1980s and early 1990s) from both the NFHS and NCAA Men's/Women's Committees.

3) Have a great weekend and GO BROWNS!! BEAT THE PATRIOTS (and the Kosar cutting Belichick)!!

MTD, Sr.

[ilyazhito]

I would say D. The arrow is set to A's basket when B has the ball at their disposal for the throw-in. It's a strange rule, because the throw-in is not an AP throw-in. This is because possession was already determined by awarding the free throws. Under any other rule set, this discussion would be moot, because we would shoot free throws and return to the point of interruption, the opening jump ball.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

This is because possession was already determined by awarding the free throws.

What FTs?

[ilyazhito]

I had a similar question on my test, but my example included free throws for a pre-game technical foul. I was surprised why they would say that the arrow should be set at the throw-in, and not when the free throws are awarded, because, at least in high school basketball, technical fouls include awarding possession.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

I had a similar question on my test, but my example included free throws for a pre-game technical foul. I was surprised why they would say that the arrow should be set at the throw-in, and not when the free throws are awarded, because, at least in high school basketball, technical fouls include awarding possession.

The penalty for a technical foul is free throws followed by a throw-in. You don't set the initial arrow until you fully penalize, which is when the ball is live for the throw-in. Based on your logic, if Team A were shooting the free throws and Team A then got a technical prior to the throw-in, Team B would then shoot free throws, then get a throw-in, plus have the AP Arrow based on it being set when Team A shot its free throws.

[ilyazhito]

A gets possession based on the free throws. Therefore, the throw-in following the possession is technically not an AP throw-in. This means that whatever happens after A gains possession (via the free throws) is irrelevant. The arrow only comes into play the next time there is a situation involving unclear possession (whether at the start of the next period or sooner, due to a held ball). AP throw-ins are triggered by a disputed possession situation (start of period, held ball, ball stuck in the ring, double foul with no possession, etc.), so if another throw-in is required after the AP throw-in starts (e.g. B kicks the ball on an AP throw-in) or before the AP throw-in (e.g. a player gets a technical foul after possession is awarded, but before the throw-in is administered.), then the subsequent throw-in is not an AP throw-in. I actually had a situation in a JV game where I awarded an AP throw-in, but never administered it, because a player on the team that would have gotten the ball clapped in an opponent's face. I assessed a technical foul to the clapping player, an opponent shot two free throws, and the opponents got the ball. Because the AP throw-in was not administered, the arrow did not change, and the team who "won" the AP throw-in got to throw the ball in at the start of the next quarter.

[Matt S.]

D.

[todd66]

D. Rule 4-3-3A

[bob jenkins]

Thanks. I also had D, with the correct administration being as indicated.

[Raymond]

Since we just had a thread about jump balls and the AP arrow, everybody here should get this question right with no doubts.

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