Jim's Test Question #1

[SJoldguy]

I thought there might be some interest in newer officials seeing some sample test questions. If you are one of the many well versed officials on this forum, give the newer guys a chance before you answer. Have fun everyone.

4th and 8 on B25 yardline. Team A only has 6 players legally on the line at the snap. A1 completes a pass to A2, A2 is tackled on B20 yardline. Well after A2 is down and the whistle has sounded, B1 kicks A2. Time expires for the 2nd period during the down.

Give the down and distance if the live ball foul is both accepted and declined, give the timing implications in both and is B1 DQed.

[walter l brown]

a's 1/10 on b's 15 untime down and b1 ejected is this correct. the way I see it is theirs a 5 yard penalty on A for 6 men on line from pervious spot which puts the ball on the b's 30 and 15 yards for dead ball foul on b1 plus ejection which makes it 1/10 a on b's 15

[Deep]

Walter,

Good job so far. Now what do we have if A's foul is declined?

[Hand Signals]

If the live ball penalty is declined then the period would end and we could enforce the dead ball foul from the succeeding spot which would be on the 2nd half kickoff. Just guessing.

[Edited by Hand Signals on Sep 15th, 2004 at 08:42 AM]

[SouthGARef]

Penalize both fouls since one is live and one is dead ball, thus not double foul. Back up A five yards from the PLOS (if accepted) to the 30, then move them 15 yards forward on the dead ball personal foul to the B15. The sticks would have been on the 17, so first down. 1/10 from B15.

Since we have a live ball foul, we will play an untimed down. If for some godforsaken reason they decline the illegal procedure penalty, we'll take 'er to half time and mark off the penalty on the 2nd half kickoff.

[Patton]

Originally posted by SouthGARef
If for some godforsaken reason they decline the illegal procedure penalty, we'll take 'er to half time and mark off the penalty on the 2nd half kickoff.

I would think they would want to decline the penalty since by accepting it A would get one last shot at the endzone before halftime. This is a great example of the officials needing to know all the options. Definitely not a case where you ask B "you want the 5 yards don't ya'"

[Deep]

Originally posted by Patton

I would think they would want to decline the penalty since by accepting it A would get one last shot at the endzone before halftime. This is a great example of the officials needing to know all the options. Definitely not a case where you ask B "you want the 5 yards don't ya'"

I agree. If I'm B's coach, I'll take my medicine on the 2nd half kickoff, not give A another shot at the endzone from my 15.

And despite what the book says, this is the coach's decision, not some 15-17 year old kid's. Be sure that the wing gets the info to the coach so he can signal his kid what he wants done.

[SouthGARef]

Didn't even think of that.

I was thinking more of a test question than a football game. On a football field, I'm pretty sure I would have noticed that declining the penalty was a good option

[mcrowder]

Deep - why do you say this is the coach's decision? Except at the smaller-kids' age, I don't talk to the coach at all on penalties. The captains make the call.

[Snake~eyes]

I agree, if it is the coaches decision then why are we asking captains?

[PSU213]

Originally posted by mcrowder
Deep - why do you say this is the coach's decision? Except at the smaller-kids' age, I don't talk to the coach at all on penalties. The captains make the call.

I think there is a difference between who makes the decision and who does the talking. This, like in many cases, is a decision primarily made by the coach. Yet I believe that actually communication with the referee must be made by the captain, and what he says goes.

[Smoke]

See this what I do not understand, I have seen officials try to block captains from seeing what the coach wants to do on the pentaly yet pro football officials talk to the coach about pentalty enforcment all the time. Let the captains see what the coach wants to do. This is no harm in that

[BoBo]

As a former coach and now a ref for 10+yrs in important or complicated situations I feel it I owe it to the teams and coaches to make sure there is no confusion in enforcement of penalties.

In the long run it will help the coach/official relationship . Communication is very important in theses situations and it is for the betterment (is that a word?) of the game.

I guess bottom line is put yourself in that coaches shoe and how would you like it explained or handled for you?

[SoGARef]

I always stand with the offended coach at my back so that the captain can look over my shoulder at his coach to receive his instructions as I explain his options.

[kentref]

Food for thought:

Rule 5-1-2b. After a fourth down, a new series of downs shall be awarded only after considering the effect of any act during the down.

Key words: "during the down"