10 seconds

[Valley Man]

Team A has the ball in their backcourt. Official's count is at 9.
A1 decides to take a shot. As the try is in flight, the official reaches a 10-count and then three point attempt/ basket subsequently goes.

Should the official have continued their count? Violation?
Or successful 3 point try?

[JRutledge]

As I said in another place, I think that it matters to some extent if this is a shot or pass. But I cannot confirm that and there appears to not be rules coverage either way. I think this is a play that was never considered and might not be thought of as to a shot near the end of a game, half or quarter. I can understand justifications for either a call or counting the basket.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Valley Man

Team A has the ball in their backcourt. Official's count is at 9. A1 decides to take a shot. As the try is in flight, the official reaches a 10-count and then three point attempt/ basket subsequently goes.
Should the official have continued their count? Violation? Or successful 3 point try?

Try ends team control and ten second count.

Here's the "rules coverage":

9-8: A player must not be, nor may his/her team be, in continuous control of the ball which is in his/her backcourt for 10 seconds.

4-12-2: A team is in control of the ball:
a. When a player of the team is in control.
b. While a live ball is being passed among teammates.
4-12-3-a: Team control continues until: The ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal.

Now ask about a long pass.

[Valley Man]

Yeah I know the count continues on a long pass.

I was aware of both of those accounts.

I think a legit shot we stop our count and the goal is good.

If the shot is considerably short, a legit argument can be made we have to call 10 seconds.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Now ask about a long pass.

Here's the "rules coverage":

9.8 SITUATION A: A1 is in A’s backcourt and has dribbled for nine seconds and then passes the ball forward towards A2 in the frontcourt. While the ball is in the air traveling from backcourt to frontcourt, the 10-second count is reached. RULING: Violation by Team A as the ball has not gained frontcourt location. It is B’s ball for a throw-in from the out-of-bounds spot closest to where A1 released the ball on the pass toward A2. (4-3; 7-5-2)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Valley Man

If the shot is considerably short, a legit argument can be made we have to call 10 seconds.

Once you deem it to be a "shot" (as you definitely did in your post), it's a shot and there's no going back.

[JRutledge]

IF there is a shot then this is not relevant. If it is pass, it could still be ruled a violation. I was overthinking the first response.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

IF there is a shot then this is not relevant. If it is pass, it could still be ruled a violation.

Agree. The "hard part" here is not the rule, it's the judgement as to whether it's a shot (last second makes this easier), or a pass.

And then there could be something else if it is a pass. Just because it can be ruled a ten second violation, should it be ruled a ten second violation in a real game in real time (as compared to a written test question).

At exactly the ten second mark, some (not all) may consider this (long pass) a "gotcha" call.

[Raymond]

If you have judged it to be a shot, there is no longer team control, therefore no longer a 10-second count. That's how I interpret it.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree. The "hard part" here is not the rule, it's the judgement as to whether it's a shot (last second makes this easier), or a pass.

And then there could be something else if it is a pass. Just because it can be ruled a ten second violation, should it be ruled a ten second violation in a real game in real time (as compared to a written test question).

At exactly the ten second mark, some (not all) may consider this (long pass) a "gotcha" call.

I disagree with the last part. Mostly because at the NCAA level for example and the usage of the shot clock, you have to call a violation if the ball is in the air. I use the same logic in a high school game with no shot clock. But again this might be an issue when or if the shot clock is used if the clock is used for a high school game in the coming years. If the team is lazy or the defense forces them to not get the ball across properly, not my issue IMO. Believe it or not, I have not gotten any crap when calling it that way. Happens a few times a year.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Mostly because at the NCAA level for example and the usage of the shot clock, you have to call a violation if the ball is in the air ... If the team is lazy or the defense forces them to not get the ball across properly, not my issue IMO. Believe it or not, I have not gotten any crap when calling it that way. Happens a few times a year.

Agree with shot clock forcing the call. No choice but to call it.

Regarding lazy offense, or great defense, I also agree.

I've called it a few times in my forty year career, but it was a really lazy offense, or a really great defense, or a really, really long and high pass (hang time).

Even then, I felt like I was showing off, "I know the rule. Gotcha".

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree with shot clock forcing the call. No choice but to call it.

Regarding lazy offense, or great defense, I also agree.

I've called it a few times in my forty year career, but it was a really lazy offense, or a really great defense, or a really, really long and high pass.

Even then, I felt like I was showing off, "I know the rule. Gotcha".

Don't put me in that situation and you have nothing to worry about. And I have a visible count.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And I have a visible count.

As we all do, and now with every grandmother in the bleachers having a high definition video camera in their cellphone, and publishing the video on My Space for all to see, it's a call that has to be made.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Valley Man

If the shot is considerably short, a legit argument can be made we have to call 10 seconds.

As described, such a legit argument cannot be made. No matter how faulty it turned out, the official's judgment was that the play was a shot.

No,w if you said "if the BALL is considerably short...." then you can have an argument about judging this to be a shot.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... with every grandmother in the bleachers having a high definition video camera in their cellphone, and publishing the video on My Space for all to see ...

The availability of video has changed the way we officiate.

In ancient times, opponents going for rebound. A1 is boxed out and bumps into B1. Ball goes out of bounds off B1's finger a split second after both players touch the ball.

Give the ball to Team B. Team A coach was happy that A1 didn't get charged with a foul. Team B coach was happy his team had the ball. Wink, wink, nod, nod. The officials knew what really happened. Both coaches knew what really happened. If A1 and B1 are smart veteran players, they knew what really happened. Even intelligent fans may have known what really happened.

Today, with the availability of video, call the foul on A1 if it's a foul, or give the ball to Team A.

No more winking and nodding.