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Avoid Controversy ...
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I still like using 4-5 to avoid counting points scored by free throws at the wrong basket for the team that "owns" the basket (not the shooter's team) for an uncorrectable error (too late). 4-5 is in the rulebook so let's push the envelope a little and use it as a "work around" to avoid controversy (and to keep visiting coaches from being forced to sit on cold buses in parking lots). Anybody disagree? Note: The buses in parking lots in Fairbanks, Alaska must be very, very cold. Maybe about -15 °F?
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Jul 11, 2021 at 05:58pm. |
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I'm convinced the only reason Billy responses several times in a row is to get higher on the posting list. There cannot be that much overthinking about none issues by anyone that has a semblance of a life. Every rule does not need that much dissertation with people that do not make "nar" rule.
Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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Intellectual Curiosity ...
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There are different level of rules expertise among those of us that seriously study the rules. For some rules experts rules expertise means to understand rules in such a way as to get them through 99% of situations one may encounter in "real game" situations. This level of study, along with mechanics study, signals study, experience, game management "people" skills, physical ability, understanding of the game, etc., will lead to a very successful basketball officiating career, maybe becoming one of the best basketball officials in an area, possibly becoming a local, or state, interpreter/trainer/clinician, etc. And then there are those, like myself, who wish to kick up their rules expertise a notch, maybe to a level of intellectual curiosity others may not desire. We attempt to understand rules at a level that exceeds 99% of situations one may find occurring in "real game" situations, odd situations that test one's rules knowledge on a "written exam" level. Why do we do it? I can't speak for all, but for me it's not to be a better "real game" official, it's not to be a better trainer, and it's not to show off. It's the intellectual challenge of "deep diving" into the rulebook and casebook to try to find answers that may not be readily apparent at first glance, especially regarding odd situations unintentionally left unclear by the NFHS. And as an added extra bonus, during a "deep dive" one may occasionally come across an "Easter egg" situation, or interpretation, that may actually be useful in a "real game". Some "research" requires multiple posts, to clarify something by peeling away additional layers of the onion, or to try to clarify something with new wording. Thanks to Forum members Zoochy, Nevadaref, bob jenkins, Camron Rust, and Mike Goodwin, there are a few great insights regarding the "sausage making" process of correcting errors in this thread. Quote:
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Have we achieved absolute closure to all the situations described in this thread? No we haven't because the NFHS needs more clarity in some if its rules and interpretations. But for those of us who want to kick our rule expertise up a notch, it was a great discussion.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Jul 12, 2021 at 10:33am. |
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Abomination ...
I would still like to see free throws at the wrong basket deleted from the correctable error list, and use 4-5 to take care of such situations.
Why does it bother me that free throws at the wrong basket is on the correctable error list? Because it's presence on correctable error list seems to imply that the NFHS wants us to count points scored by free throws at the wrong basket for the team that "owns" the basket for a (too late) uncorrectable error, something that many here on the Forum consider to be an abomination. That's why.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Jul 12, 2021 at 12:40pm. |
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2.10.4 SITUATION B "The officials erroneously permit A1 to shoot technical foul free throws at Team B’s basket; A1 makes both free throws. When the error is discovered, the timeframe for the correctable error (a) has not passed; or (b) has passed. In (a), cancel the successful free throws by A1 and administer the free throws again at the correct basket. In (b), the free throws by A1 shall not be canceled and count toward Team A’s point total." What benefit is there from deleting "the wrong basket" from 2-10-1? Team A keeps the points they scored in the other basket, if the error isn't corrected in time. |
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This only seems to be an issue for you Billy. It really is not something many people argue or debate. The rule says that it must be done at the correct basket, why it is that way is really not that much of a debate. Don't let it happen and then you have nothing to worry about. Shoot at the proper basket. It does not even say that shooting out of order is an issue. I have never in all my years heard anyone go on and on about this but you at this point Billy. So take that for what it is worth. And I know I am around many more officials than you are in your little corner of Conneticut. I was around people this past weekend from all over the country in Texas. No one is struggling with this issue.
Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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Avoid Correctable Errors ...
And apparently for the NFHS since they have a casebook play that specifically deals with this situation.
One rule does. One rule doesn't. When the time frame of a correctable error has not passed, it is true that the free throws must be attempted at the correct basket, but when the time frame of a correctable error has passed that's not true, the free throws don't have to be attempted at the correct basket, and if points are scored, they count for the shooting team (4-5). Quote:
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Jul 12, 2021 at 04:37pm. |
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Always Listen To bob ...
Why is Nevadaref posting under Mike Goodwin's username?
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Pretty much what bob jenkins said a while back. Quote:
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Like Mike Goodwin stated earlier, the NFHS really wants players shooting free throws at the correct basket, even it there is no danger of points counting for the "wrong" team. Thanks guys. The layers of the onion have been peeled away.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Jul 12, 2021 at 05:15pm. |
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That was never part of any debate in this thread. That is an example of you making up stuff in your head just so you can post back and forth with yourself. Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
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A-hole formerly known as BNR |
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4-5 Nobody Gets Cheated By An Official's Mistake ...
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Not free throws, and not a mistake by the officials, but you haven't officiated very long if you have never observed a confused player attempting to shoot at the "wrong" basket and any points scored count for the "other" team (with all the complications if said player is fouled by an equally confused defender).
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Jul 12, 2021 at 05:16pm. |
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I'll answer for you--nothing at all. Nobody has ever been confused enough to think that shooting free throws at the wrong basket will count as points for the opponent, so I don't know why you're posting 20 plus times to yourself on the subject. Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
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A-hole formerly known as BNR |
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It's just a correctable error to everyone else. The free throws were shot at the wrong basket. It's correctable whether the free throws were missed or made. Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
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A-hole formerly known as BNR |
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Newbie Sarcasm ...
Are Forum members with less than fifty posts allowed to be sarcastic?
Maybe someone who travels to games in puddle jumpers has paid his "dues" and is allowed to be what he wants to be?
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Jul 12, 2021 at 05:18pm. |
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