Fun With Legal Guarding Position ...

[bob jenkins]

PC. No travel -- but the little hesitation did make that thought enter my mind.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

No travel -- but the little hesitation did make that thought enter my mind.

If by, "No travel", you meant, "Too close to call, so don't call it", I agree.

After the same "thought enter(ed) my mind", I replayed the video at 1/4 speed (only available to IAABO members).

Endline angle. White #20 catches the ball with only his right foot on the floor and his left foot in the air, and then puts his left foot on the floor, making his right foot his pivot foot. He then lifts his right (pivot) foot before releasing the ball to start a dribble. Travel.

But again, this was at 1/4 speed and was replayed multiple times. If it's too close to call, don't call it.

[JRutledge]

PC foul. The defender even stops moving and gets run over. This is one of the easier ones based on the endline angle. The Center guessed.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The Center guessed.

Locally, we've been taught that when there's a train wreck, and when a call just has has to made, and when one is ill-prepared to make that call (for whatever reason, sudden surprise, bad angle, straight-lined, out of position, etc.), if there's contact on the defender's torso (as in this video), to make an educated guess and err on the side of calling a player control foul.

[JRutledge]

I did not say to not make a call, but we default too often to the defender who did something wrong. This is a clear PC foul from the end-line look. That is not the look he had as the Center. And because he did not position adjust, he really did not see the play clearly. He was straight-lined. And as a philosophy when I have doubt, I am calling a PC foul because to me it cleans up your game better than calling a block. Then the offensive players think they can go into defenders no matter what and get calls. Again, just my opinion.

Peace

[MechanicGuy]

I thought it was a block from the first look. It looked like a bit of a hip thrust to initiate contact.

The endline angle proves that wrong. Easy PC from that look.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by MechanicGuy

I thought it was a block from the first look. It looked like a bit of a hip thrust to initiate contact.

The endline angle proves that wrong. Easy PC from that look.

I thought the same thing. Relative motion can be deceptive. When the offensive player is moving much faster than the retreating or stationary defender, it can make it appear as though the defender was moving toward the offensive player at contact.

This is something I’ve worked to become much more mindful of in recent seasons, and something I review on video. It has helped a lot.

I think this is also part of the reason loud mouths like Jay Bilas think officials call too many PC fouls. To ignorant announcers, they don’t “look” like PC fouls.


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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... but we default too often to the defender ...

Agree.

If I'm ill-prepared to make a train wreck call that absolutely has to be made (too much contact and can't pass with a no call), ill-prepared for whatever reason, sudden surprise, bad angle, straight-lined, out of position, bad partner (swallows whistle), partner out of position, sun in eyes through a gym window (we actually have a gym with this problem), etc.), and if I also fail (for the same reasons above) to see contact/no contact on the defender's torso (not even getting a little peek at our usual best guess "rule of thumb" clue, contact on torso), my default guess call with players on the floor and with me having absolutely no clue as to how they got there, right, or wrong, is a block.

Only happens once, or twice, a year, if that, but some plays require a whistle because a no-call (no guess) in such plays would only encourage subsequent rough play.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... if there's contact on the defender's torso ... to make an educated guess and err on the side of calling a player control foul.

... otherwise (no contact on the defender's torso, or can't observe contact/no contact on the defender's torso) I rule (guess) a block.

All by local custom.

[BillyMac]

In block/charge situations, when we have players on the floor and we have absolutely no clue as to how they got there, I wonder if there is a statistically better guess, block, or charge?

In millions of block/charge situations over the years that have been correctly adjudicated, are defenders more likely to illegally contact ball handlers, or are ball handlers more likely to illegally contact defenders?

Can't answer more blocks in a game than charges because some blocks may not be in a block/charge situation (illegal screens).

I think that you can see where I'm going with this. Our local custom in block/charge situations, when we have players on the floor and we have absolutely no clue as to how they got there, and haven't observed contact, or no contact, on the defender's torso, and can't pass with a no-call because it would encourage subsequent rough play, we locally default to block.

Are we more likely to be correct, or incorrect, with the "blind" block guess?

Of course, it's always better to anticipate the play, know the rules, and be in the best position to make the correct call, but "stuff" happens, and sometimes the "train wreck" whistle has to be sounded, followed by a "blind" guess.