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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 22, 2021, 07:40am
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Deliberate Foul ...

I wish that all of my high school players knew how to strategically deliberately foul so that it's not an intentional foul. Doing so would make my high school job a lot easier.

Oral Roberts vs. Florida:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1373819694680014848
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Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Mar 22, 2021 at 08:21am.
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Old Mon Mar 22, 2021, 08:26am
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I donít like this one as shown at all. When the defender is playing patty cake on the ball handlers back and rob cage, while making absolutely no attempt to make a play on the ball, to me that is text book intentional foul.

What I like to see in these situations is a defender come in and make a deliberate play for the ball while coming right across the ball handlerís forearms. Thatís much easier to call as a common foul without any pushback from an assignor, or anyone else for that matter.


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Old Mon Mar 22, 2021, 08:44am
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Hack-A-Shaq ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhistlesAndStripes View Post
I don’t like this one as shown at all ...
While not perfect, the defender waited for the player to get the ball so it wasn't an off-the-ball foul, didn't use a two arm "bear hug", didn't use a deliberate push from behind, didn't grab a fist full of jersey, and didn't excessively contact the player. That pretty much checks most of the boxes for a common foul in my high school game and I definitely wouldn't call this an intentional foul in my high school game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhistlesAndStripes View Post
... What I like to see in these situations is a defender come in and make a deliberate play for the ball while coming right across the ball handler’s forearms.
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ďI was in prison and you came to visit me.Ē (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Mar 22, 2021 at 08:57am.
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Old Mon Mar 22, 2021, 08:48am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhistlesAndStripes View Post
I donít like this one as shown at all. When the defender is playing patty cake on the ball handlers back and rob cage, while making absolutely no attempt to make a play on the ball, to me that is text book intentional foul.

What I like to see in these situations is a defender come in and make a deliberate play for the ball while coming right across the ball handlerís forearms. Thatís much easier to call as a common foul without any pushback from an assignor, or anyone else for that matter.


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Except it's accepted by EVERYONE. I am a big fan. Take the foul and move on.


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Old Mon Mar 22, 2021, 08:58am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhistlesAndStripes View Post
I donít like this one as shown at all. When the defender is playing patty cake on the ball handlers back and rob cage, while making absolutely no attempt to make a play on the ball, to me that is text book intentional foul.

What I like to see in these situations is a defender come in and make a deliberate play for the ball while coming right across the ball handlerís forearms. Thatís much easier to call as a common foul without any pushback from an assignor, or anyone else for that matter.


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He was just playing defense and trying to measure up. Instead of using a one-hand hot stove tough, he used two hands / multiple touches. Automatic foul, Common every time.
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Old Mon Mar 22, 2021, 10:04am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhistlesAndStripes View Post
I don’t like this one as shown at all. When the defender is playing patty cake on the ball handlers back and rob cage, while making absolutely no attempt to make a play on the ball, to me that is text book intentional foul.

What I like to see in these situations is a defender come in and make a deliberate play for the ball while coming right across the ball handler’s forearms. That’s much easier to call as a common foul without any pushback from an assignor, or anyone else for that matter.


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I don't have any supervisors who would want me to call this an Intentional/F1 foul.
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Old Mon Mar 22, 2021, 10:53am
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Text Book Intentional Fouls ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhistlesAndStripes View Post
When the defender is playing patty cake on the ball handlers back and rob cage, while making absolutely no attempt to make a play on the ball, to me that is text book intentional foul.
While not necessarily "automatic", the following are what we should, at least, consider "text book" intentional fouls (not limited to): off-the-ball not-basketball plays, "bear hugs", deliberate pushes from behind, grabbing a fist full of jersey, and excessive contact.

When any of these occur in strategic, often late game (or anytime) situations, and appear to be deliberate in nature, I will at least give some careful thought to the possibility of an intentional foul.

While many high school players are well coached and understand how to "play the game within the game", there are a few knuckleheads out there that will never win an Academy Award.

Worst offenders are the linebackers and linemen who want to have fun with their friends, stay in shape, and play basketball in the football off-season winter months (in some of our very small rural Connecticut high schools, schools with John Deere tractors in the parking lots, anybody with a pulse who can walk and chew gum at the same time makes the basketball team). If one's only tool is a football then every problem looks like a tackle (apologies to Mark Twain).

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ďI was in prison and you came to visit me.Ē (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Mar 23, 2021 at 10:13am.
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Old Tue Mar 23, 2021, 08:25am
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As I recall, there was a period (late 80s?)where intentional fouls were more broadly enforced and that pitty-pat from behind would be called intentional. But that resulted in more physical fouls "going for the ball," and the game adjusted back to wink-wink-nod-nod on those late game fouls.
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Old Tue Mar 23, 2021, 09:23am
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Wink-Wink-Nod-Nod ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by so cal lurker View Post
As I recall, there was a period (late 80s? )where intentional fouls were more broadly enforced and that pitty-pat from behind would be called intentional.
Not sure if it's related ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Back when I was coaching middle school basketball in the late 1970's, if a coach was yelling, "Foul him", in late game, need to come from behind, clock running down, stop the clock situations, an intentional foul was pretty much automatic.

I was advised by a highly respected basketball official teacher-colleague to come up with a "code word" for such situations. My "code word" was, "Steal the ball", when my players heard that they knew to foul to stop the clock, and I taught them to just "reach in" and make arm contact rather than grabbing a jersey, pushing from behind, or bear hugging an opponent.

Of course that was ancient history and now the NFHS recognizes late game tactical fouls as a legitimate part of the game, and changed the rule to allow coaches to "coach".
Quote:
Originally Posted by so cal lurker View Post
... that resulted in more physical fouls "going for the ball," and the game adjusted back to wink-wink-nod-nod on those late game fouls.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Sometimes the defensive player is too "shy" to "reach in" and make real contact (and sometimes they're too aggressive).

When a team, ahead late in the game, wants to just play "keep away" and doesn't want to shoot free throws, this can make difficult decisions for officials on "touch" contact that we would normally ignore as incidental earlier in the game.

To call a "touch" foul in this situation (that we would not have called earlier in the game) would give an advantage not intended by rule to the team behind.
Like a legal single "hot stove" touch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
When the team ahead is willing to just take the free throws, we can call the "touch" foul immediately when contact occurs so the ball handler doesn't get hit harder to draw a whistle (creating end of game game management problems).

Officials also have to give the defense a chance to steal the ball before a quick whistle on contact.
Reminder. 10-7-2: A player must not contact an opponent with his/her hand unless such contact is only with the opponent’s hand while it is on the ball and is incidental to an attempt to play the ball.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
In situations like this, if I'm near the losing team coming out of their huddle after timeout, I'll remind then to, "Go for the ball".
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ďI was in prison and you came to visit me.Ē (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Mar 23, 2021 at 11:48am.
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