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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 12, 2021, 10:49am
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Fun With An Elbow To The Throat ...

Low Post Contact - is there a foul on this play? Is there a foul? Who should be charged? Does the Lead official have a good angle on the play?

https://storage.googleapis.com/refqu...4gaKHDvw%3D%3D

Two choices: This is a team control foul. This is incidental contact - play on!

My comment: This is a team control foul. Black #44 throws an elbow to the throat of White #30.
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Old Fri Mar 12, 2021, 10:56am
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Just call an illegal ward off and move on. I have no idea if there was any contact with the head or neck area, but she clearly pushes off to gain space with her arm. Call the illegal ward off and you do not have to worry about calling anything else IMO based on what we see.

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Old Fri Mar 12, 2021, 10:59am
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Clear TC foul.
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Old Fri Mar 12, 2021, 11:26am
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Above The Shoulders ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
... do not have to worry about calling anything else ...
IAABO makes it easy, only two choices: This is a team control foul. This is incidental contact - play on!

But I did give half a thought to an "above the shoulders" situation. Notice how White #30's head is thrown backward (don't think she's trying to win an Academy Award here). Just sayin'.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Mar 12, 2021 at 11:31am.
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Old Fri Mar 12, 2021, 12:25pm
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Elbow To The Throat ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Just call an illegal ward off and move on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
But I did give half a thought to an "above the shoulders" situation. Notice how White #30's head is thrown backward (don't think she's trying to win an Academy Award here). Just sayin'.
Let's give it a full thought, or a second thought. Should this elbow to the throat be treated as a simple common foul? Or does it rise above the level of a common foul?

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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Mar 12, 2021 at 12:29pm.
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Old Fri Mar 12, 2021, 12:47pm
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For The Good Of The Cause ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Let's give it a full thought, or a second thought. Should this elbow to the throat be treated as a simple common foul? Or does it rise above the level of a common foul?
2012-13 Points Of Emphasis Contact Above The Shoulders
Examples of illegal contact above the shoulders and resulting penalties.
1. Contact with a stationary elbow may be incidental or a common foul.
2. An elbow in movement but not excessive should be an intentional foul.
3. A moving elbow that is excessive can be either an intentional foul or flagrant personal foul.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Mar 12, 2021 at 12:54pm.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 12, 2021, 12:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
2012-13 Points Of Emphasis Contact Above The Shoulders

With a continued emphasis on reducing concussions and decreasing excessive contact situations the committee determined that more guidance is needed for penalizing contact above the shoulders. A player shall not swing his/her arm(s) or elbow(s) even without contacting an opponent. Excessive swinging of the elbows occurs when arms and elbows are swung about while using the shoulders as pivots, and the speed of the extended arms and elbows is in excess of the rest of the body as it rotates on the hips or on the pivot foot.

Examples of illegal contact above the shoulders and resulting penalties.
1. Contact with a stationary elbow may be incidental or a common foul.
2. An elbow in movement but not excessive should be an intentional foul.
3. A moving elbow that is excessive can be either an intentional foul or flagrant personal foul.
Every league was on that bandwagon at that time. The others all explicitly dropped that directive because it resulted in some absurd intentional fouls. The NFHS didn't retract it but they never repeated it either. The rules themselves do not support that direction. So, it is something that, by rule, is still open to interpretation.

IMO, the NCAA-M (and perhaps the W) have it right. If it is a basketball play with normal movements, it is not to be ruled intentional.
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