Fun With An Elbow To The Throat ...

[JRutledge]

Just call an illegal ward off and move on. I have no idea if there was any contact with the head or neck area, but she clearly pushes off to gain space with her arm. Call the illegal ward off and you do not have to worry about calling anything else IMO based on what we see.

Peace

[bob jenkins]

Clear TC foul.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... do not have to worry about calling anything else ...

IAABO makes it easy, only two choices: This is a team control foul. This is incidental contact - play on!

But I did give half a thought to an "above the shoulders" situation. Notice how White #30's head is thrown backward (don't think she's trying to win an Academy Award here). Just sayin'.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Just call an illegal ward off and move on.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

But I did give half a thought to an "above the shoulders" situation. Notice how White #30's head is thrown backward (don't think she's trying to win an Academy Award here). Just sayin'.

Let's give it a full thought, or a second thought. Should this elbow to the throat be treated as a simple common foul? Or does it rise above the level of a common foul?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Let's give it a full thought, or a second thought. Should this elbow to the throat be treated as a simple common foul? Or does it rise above the level of a common foul?

2012-13 Points Of Emphasis Contact Above The Shoulders
Examples of illegal contact above the shoulders and resulting penalties.
1. Contact with a stationary elbow may be incidental or a common foul.
2. An elbow in movement but not excessive should be an intentional foul.
3. A moving elbow that is excessive can be either an intentional foul or flagrant personal foul.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

2012-13 Points Of Emphasis Contact Above The Shoulders

With a continued emphasis on reducing concussions and decreasing excessive contact situations the committee determined that more guidance is needed for penalizing contact above the shoulders. A player shall not swing his/her arm(s) or elbow(s) even without contacting an opponent. Excessive swinging of the elbows occurs when arms and elbows are swung about while using the shoulders as pivots, and the speed of the extended arms and elbows is in excess of the rest of the body as it rotates on the hips or on the pivot foot.

Examples of illegal contact above the shoulders and resulting penalties.
1. Contact with a stationary elbow may be incidental or a common foul.
2. An elbow in movement but not excessive should be an intentional foul.
3. A moving elbow that is excessive can be either an intentional foul or flagrant personal foul.

Every league was on that bandwagon at that time. The others all explicitly dropped that directive because it resulted in some absurd intentional fouls. The NFHS didn't retract it but they never repeated it either. The rules themselves do not support that direction. So, it is something that, by rule, is still open to interpretation.

IMO, the NCAA-M (and perhaps the W) have it right. If it is a basketball play with normal movements, it is not to be ruled intentional.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Every league was on that bandwagon at that time. The others all explicitly dropped that directive because it resulted in some absurd intentional fouls. The NFHS didn't retract it but they never repeated it either. The rules themselves do not support that direction. So, it is something that, by rule, is still open to interpretation.

Good points. Agree (open to interpretation).

My high school interpretation, I would, at least, consider a moving elbow to the throat an intentional foul.

Also, stupid NFHS (eight year old Point of Emphasis that never made its way into the rulebook, or casebook).

[JRutledge]

Again I see no such action to the throat. I see a normal ward off of a post player. Call the foul and it will stop. No need to prove you know some obscure POE that each year gets further and further away from what might have been intended at the time. Again we have had intentional fouls a few times because a POE since that time and nothing was mentioned about what to do specifically with contact above the shoulders. So when they put some language I might consider that fact, but pushing someone off as normal should be nothing but a common or team control foul in this case. It is not that complicated.

Even the NCAA does a better job addressing this kind of post play as well, tell us what is allowed and what is not allowed. But we know the NF would make things so much easier if they did, so they will not address this at all.

Peace