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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 01, 2021, 10:36am
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Fun With Creating Separation …

Does offensive player foul before catching the ball? On an inbounds pass, player receiving ball contacts her opponent. Was this legal incidental contact? Was this a team control foul?

https://storage.googleapis.com/refqu...LZzSadAA%3D%3D

Two choices: This is a team control foul. This is incidental contact.

My comment: This is a team control foul. White #11 gained a slight advantage after using both of her arms to create separation between herself and Black #12.

Thoughts?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 01, 2021, 10:41am
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The contact with her hands is borderline. Why not make it easy on yourself and just call the traveling violation?
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 01, 2021, 11:24am
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Dead Ball Travel ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
The contact with her hands is borderline. Why not make it easy on yourself and just call the traveling violation?
Borderline? Agree.

Missed the travel. Good eye Nevadaref. Let's see if IAABO picks that up in its play commentary.

(In my defense, the ball would have become dead with the team control foul and one can't travel with a dead ball.)
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“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Mar 01, 2021 at 12:26pm.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 01, 2021, 01:16pm
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It probably is a foul and would have no issue if called.

Not so sure about the travel violation, not on that movement, but that is me.

Peace
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Old Mon Mar 01, 2021, 01:57pm
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Drags Along The Floor ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Not so sure about the travel violation, not on that movement, but that is me.
White #11 catches (possesses) the ball with her left foot on the floor, and then subsequently her right foot touches the floor, making her left foot the pivot foot, which she subsequently lifts and drags along the floor.

However, the Trail was right there and had a great look and he passed on a call, so a no call may be plausible.

Two simple plays (so I thought) posted today, and there's a lot to see, calls, and no calls.

Basketball officiating is really hard. Good basketball officiating is really, really hard.

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“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Mar 01, 2021 at 06:15pm.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 07, 2021, 11:18am
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IAABO Survey Says …

Disclaimer: For IAABO eyes only. Below is not a NFHS interpretation, it's only an IAABO International interpretation which obviously doesn't mean a hill of beans to most members of this Forum.

https://storage.googleapis.com/refqu...LZzSadAA%3D%3D

IAABO International Play Commentary: Correct Answer: This is a team control foul.

In this play, let's think about the mindset of the player receiving the ball. She reaches out and slightly contacts the defender before receiving the ball. Why do you suppose she did it? In her mind, do you think she needed that slight contact to ensure she would be able to get the ball and prevent the defender from deflecting the pass?

Keep in mind, the severity of contact is not the primary factor if a foul occurs on this play. Was the defender inhibited by the contact? Did the offensive player gain an advantage by the contact? If this is the case, this is a pushing foul on the offensive team, and a team control foul should be assessed. This is the ruling 65% of respondents stated was the correct ruling.

Here is the breakdown of the IAABO members that commented on the video: This is a team control foul 66% (including me). This is incidental contact 34%.
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Old Sun Mar 07, 2021, 03:11pm
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At the time of the contact, the ball was already well over B's head. She wasn't catching it either way. B still jumped cleanly and back towards the opponent. There was probably a small nudge there but it had zero impact on the play. White was going to catch that ball regardless. I'm probably going incidental.
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Old Sun Mar 07, 2021, 06:58pm
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Contact On Inbound Plays ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
There was probably a small nudge there ...
I find that small nudges, tiny pushes, short extension of arms, minor holds, etc. (not even considering screens), on inbounds plays, usually by the offense; often planned, predetermined, and practiced; and executed deliberately and intentionally; to be among the most difficult contact plays for me to adjudicate.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Mar 07, 2021 at 07:09pm.
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Old Mon Mar 08, 2021, 07:48am
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As a group, I think that we tend to "let more go" during throw-in plays than during other aspects of the game.
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Old Mon Mar 08, 2021, 10:51am
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Secretly Thought ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I find that small nudges, tiny pushes, short extension of arms, minor holds, etc. (not even considering screens), on inbounds plays, usually by the offense; often planned, predetermined, and practiced; and executed deliberately and intentionally; to be among the most difficult contact plays for me to adjudicate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
As a group, I think that we tend to "let more go" during throw-in plays than during other aspects of the game.
Thank you for saying out loud what I have always secretly thought and was afraid to say out loud.

Why do we do this?
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Mar 08, 2021 at 01:46pm.
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Old Mon Mar 08, 2021, 12:53pm
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Just Looking For The Most Egregious Behavior ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
As a group, I think that we tend to "let more go" during throw-in plays than during other aspects of the game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Why do we do this?
... because in a two person game (as are most high school level games and below), while one official is watching the inbounder (counting five, watching the line, watching a single defender), the other official has to watch eight players all moving in multiple directions over a very expansive area, purposely trying to block each other to prevent each other from going where they want to go, and purposely trying to create space, resulting in the non-administering official just looking for the most egregious behavior?

Could that be why?
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“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Mar 08, 2021 at 01:49pm.
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Old Wed Mar 10, 2021, 09:20am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
... because in a two person game (as are most high school level games and below),
How many states are still using two-person on the varsity level? I don't remember the last time I worked two-person on a varsity game.
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Old Wed Mar 10, 2021, 09:39am
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Let's Not Be Varsity-Centric ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RefRich View Post
How many states are still using two-person on the varsity level? I don't remember the last time I worked two-person on a varsity game.
Don't know, but let's not be varsity-centric. Just looking at interscholastic games alone there are a lot of junior varsity, freshman, and middle school games that probably only use two officials. Add in recreation (adult and youth), travel, AAU, etc., and the percentage of games officiated by only two officials below the collegiate level becomes enormous.

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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 10, 2021, 09:40am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Don't know, but let's not be varsity-centric. Just looking at interscholastic games alone there are a lot of junior varsity, freshman, and middle school games that probably only use two officials. Add in recreation (adult and youth), travel, AAU, etc., and the percentage of games officiated by only two officials below the collegiate level becomes enormous.
Good point!
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