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Old Wed Feb 10, 2021, 10:02pm
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Rule Change Proposals

As the SRI for Oregon, I've made the following rule change proposals. Let me know what you think.

Proposal on undershirt colors
Change Type: Rule
Sport: Basketball
Rule: 3-5-6

Suggested Change:
ART. 6 . . . Undershirts must be white, black, beige, or a single solid color similar to the torso of the jersey and must be hemmed and not have frayed or ragged edges. If the undershirt has sleeves, they must be the same length. Only one visible logo is permitted. See 3-6 for logo requirements.

(optional variation): Undershirts, if worn, must be the same for all team members but need not match the wristbands, arm sleeves, and headbands).

Rationale:
We have two different color standards for accessories....one of headbands, arm sleeves, and wrist bands and another for undershirts. In particular, arm sleeves can can extend up to the arm pits. If such an item can be white/black/beige regardless of the jersey color, it seems reasonable to allow undershirts to also be white/black/beige.
Making this change would make it such that all accessories have the same color restrictions, simplifying the issue.

A variation of this could allow the undershirts to be either treated as an accessory, matching the headbands/wristbands OR matching the jersey color independent of the color of the wristbands/headbands.

Proposal on establishing team control while airborne and landing in the backcourt
Change Type: Editorial
Sport: Basketball
Rule: 9-9-3:

Suggested Change:

A player from a team that does not have team control During a jump ball, throw-in or while on defense, a player may legally jump from his/her frontcourt, secure control of the ball with both feet off the floor and return to the floor with one or both feet in the backcourt. The player may make a normal landing and it makes no difference whether the first foot down is in the frontcourt or backcourt.



Rationale:
The rule, as written, creates a few cases that lead to violations that are not within the spirit of the game. For example, if the ball is tipped on a throwin prior to a player securing control, the throw-in ends and the player subsequently catching the ball is at risk of committing a backcourt violation. Also, after a shot when there is no team control, a long rebound may put a player at risk of committing a backcourt violation in an effort to secure control of the ball.

This change allows a player to always establish team control without immediate risk of committing a backcourt violation. The rule, in a past version, allowed for something like this but the current wording makes these actions a violation.


Proposal on penalty for delaying the return to inbounds on a throwin
Change Type: Rule
Sport: Basketball
Rule: 10-4-2

Suggested Change:
Purposely and/or deceitfully delay returning after legally being out of bounds.
Add:
Rule 9-3-4: A player must not delay returning after legally being out of bounds.

Rationale:
When a player delays returning inbounds after executing a throw-in, the penalty of a technical foul is too severe. Several years ago, the penalty for leaving the court was a technical foul and was changed to be a violation. These two situations are essentially the same and should have the same penalty. Officials are hesitant to call a technical foul here due to the severity of the penalty not matching the nature of the infraction. Changing this to a violation would be better for consistency and for the game.



Proposal on Team Control Definition
Change Type: Editorial
Sport: Basketball
Rule: 4-12-2

Suggested Change:
DELETE: d. When a player of the team has disposal of the ball for a throw-in.


Rationale:
The change of the definition of team control to include throw-ins has caused no end of confusion with regards to other rules that depend on team control such as backcourt violations. As State Rules Interpreter, I've repeatedly had to explain that team control on a throw in is only for fouls, not for any other purpose. The NFHS also has recently published articles to that same effect. I believe the entire issue could be solved in a much more elegant manner.

Instead of having the definition of team control include throw-ins, it would be much less complicated to return to the prior definition of team control and then define a team control foul to include the time during a throw-in (it already does) in the same way a player control foul includes an airborne shooter. The rules and cases about team control could return to what they were prior to having a throw-in be part of team control while keeping the same result....no team control on a throw-in until a player inbounds establishes player control but no FTs for a foul committed by the throwin team either. This keeps from having all the other rules that depend on team/player control from having a bunch a confusing caveats about only being valid after the ball has been controlled inbounds.
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Thu Feb 11, 2021 at 02:37am.
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Old Wed Feb 10, 2021, 11:14pm
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Well written.

I’d rather get rid of the seatbelt rule than have any of those changes, however.
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Old Wed Feb 10, 2021, 11:36pm
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Why not push for both sets of rule changes?
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Old Thu Feb 11, 2021, 07:42am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
Well written.

I’d rather get rid of the seatbelt rule than have any of those changes, however.
Just for counterbalance, and because you've flogged this horse several times over the past couple of days -- I'm in favor of keeping the seatbelt rule.
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Old Thu Feb 11, 2021, 12:11pm
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Fashion Police ...

Undershirts.

Do what you will with other "equipment" colors, but keep the undershirt rule the same as it currently is.

While the present undershirt rule is the strictest of all fashion rules (only two choices: white, or jersey color), it's also the simplest for everyone (officials, coaches, players, parents who purchase undershirts) to understand, and the simplest to adjudicate.

When I'm watching for rebounding action contact, I don't want opponents to have the same color undershirts, and I want undershirts (if worn) to match the jerseys. I have various undershirt colors in scrimmages every year. They can be slightly distracting. I don't want that in real games.

Rules that restrict equipment colors benefit officials by allowing them to easily identify players on each team during fast paced action.

Glad the NFHS got rid of the "school color" option a few years ago.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Feb 11, 2021 at 01:40pm.
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Old Thu Feb 11, 2021, 12:16pm
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Delay Return ...

Delaying the return to inbounds on a throwin.

I twice offered this to the NFHS as a formal proposal (with the exact same rationale), this past year it made it's way all the way to the rules committee for final consideration. Didn't make it past committee. Dead end. Maybe if we just keep hammering away. Hopefully third time will be the charm. Good luck.
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“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Feb 11, 2021 at 06:36pm.
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Old Thu Feb 11, 2021, 12:22pm
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Double Barreled Negative Interaction ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
I’d rather get rid of the seatbelt rule than have any of those changes, however.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
I'm in favor of keeping the seatbelt rule.
In theory, I like the "seatbelt rule". My problem with the rule is when head coaches have to be "reminded" to not stand and coach. It adds an extra layer of possible negative interaction between the officials and the head coach, a relationship that has already been "strained". I only favor getting rid of the "seatbelt rule" because it would also get rid of this "double barreled" negative interaction.

Give the opponents two free throws, add the technical foul to the coaches total, and play on, he's been punished enough.
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“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Feb 11, 2021 at 01:03pm.
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Old Thu Feb 11, 2021, 01:32pm
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All of Camron’s rule change proposals make sense, which means that the NFHS won’t adopt any of them.
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Old Thu Feb 11, 2021, 01:37pm
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NFHS Burn ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
All of Camron’s rule change proposals make sense, which means that the NFHS won’t adopt any of them.
My nomination for "Post O' The Week".
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Old Fri Feb 12, 2021, 08:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
All of Camron’s rule change proposals make sense, which means that the NFHS won’t adopt any of them.
Is there a law that says that the NFHS shall only adopt nonsensical rules proposals ?
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Old Sun Feb 14, 2021, 02:31pm
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Don't give a damn about uniform clarifications. Stop having officials adjudicate this kind of silliness.

The other rules do not move me, but they are OK. They can change definitions and still not define the actions properly in the Casebook or interpretation.

And keep the seatbelt rule, gets them to think about why that took place.

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Old Sun Feb 14, 2021, 03:15pm
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The Greatest Show On Earth ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Don't give a damn about uniform clarifications. Stop having officials adjudicate this kind of silliness.
Uniforms, or equipment?

While, like most, I hate being the fashion police, I don't want my high school game becoming the Wild Wild West, or a the Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey Circus.

Want to be a basketball player? Dress the part.

Many rules regarding undershirts, headbands, wristbands, arm sleeves, knee sleeves, lower leg sleeves, knee pads, elbow pads, compression shorts, tights, hair control devices, and ribbons need to be either much more simplified, or eliminated.

(I like undershirt colors just the way they are now.)

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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Feb 14, 2021 at 04:54pm.
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Old Sun Feb 14, 2021, 05:25pm
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First Thing ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Many rules regarding undershirts, headbands, wristbands, arm sleeves, knee sleeves, lower leg sleeves, knee pads, elbow pads, compression shorts, tights, hair control devices, and ribbons need to be either much more simplified, or eliminated.
Get rid of beige as a legal equipment color choice.

Hey NFHS, 2008 called and it wants it beige underwrap back.

It's 2021. Underwrap, often used by girls as a headband, now comes in a variety of colors, not just beige (as in the past).

Most team now have underwrap in the same color as the jersey.

Keep equipment colors simple. Black, white, or the predominant color of the jersey.

When was the last time anyone spotted a beige arm sleeve, leg sleeve, headband, wristband, compression shorts, or tights?

If it's irrelevant and out of date, eliminate it. Keep it simple stupid.

(Note: 3M™ patented Coban™ underwrap in 1992 and beige was the only color available at the time.)

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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Feb 14, 2021 at 07:24pm.
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Old Mon Feb 15, 2021, 12:22pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Uniforms, or equipment?

While, like most, I hate being the fashion police, I don't want my high school game becoming the Wild Wild West, or a the Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey Circus.

If it is not about safety, why do I care what type of headband someone has on their head? If the jersey is the same color and style, their undershirt means nothing to me. If people can have different skin colors, it is really hard to know what is on their arms? There was a time that the NF tried to legislate tattoos on the arm or body and then that went away quickly. But worrying about the color and logo of things the school does not provide is silly. That will not change because people assume there will be all these different styles.

Peace
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Old Mon Feb 15, 2021, 01:00pm
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Unwilling Fashion Police ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
... why do I care what type of headband someone has on their head? If the jersey is the same color and style, their undershirt means nothing to me ... worrying about the color ... of things the school does not provide is silly ...
Agree with you that the NFHS has turned us into mostly unwilling fashion police. The pendulum has swung to far too one side. However I don't want the pendulum to swing so far to the other side that high school basketball looks no different than lower level basketball (recreation, travel, AAU, YMCA, etc.).

We absolutely need some common sense changes that simplify (and possibly eliminate) many of these rules, but these changes must still restrict equipment colors to benefit officials by allowing them to easily identify players on each team during fast paced action.

Easy start. Ignore everything from the waist down (leg sleeves, knee pads, tights, compression shorts), just as we now ignore shorts, socks, and shoes (except for flashing lights).

Headbands, wristbands, arm sleeves? Make it simpler. Black, white, jersey color (no beige), all the same for the team. Want it even simpler? Any color, but all the same for the team.

A stripe on an arm sleeve? Fuhgeddaboudit, the issue is not worth the time, energy, or mental effort.

Logos? Let's not allow players to be become billboards. Unless we change our minds and want to allow this to raise money for interscholastic sports (à la WNBA, international, etc.).

Undershirts? When I'm watching for rebounding action contact by multiple players, I don't want opponents to have the same color undershirts, and I want undershirts to match the jerseys (treated as an extension of the jersey). I have various undershirt colors in preseason scrimmages every year. They can be slightly distracting. I don't want that in real games.

I like undershirt color rules just the way they are now, strict (only two choices, white, or jersey color), but simple to understand, and simple to enforce (if we all did it, we can be our own worst enemies, if 95% of us strictly enforced this in the first week and a half in December, the problem would go away, like herd immunity).
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Feb 15, 2021 at 03:21pm.
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