ASA Rule Change Proposals for 2008

[IRISHMAFIA]

These are the changes eventually submitted. I will post others of interested once I receive them.

ASA Code Change

Article 304

Add as voting council members after B:
C. Local Association Player Representatives

Comments: Allows each local association the option of carrying a minimum of two council seats. Allows increased participation of new members from smaller association at no additional expense to ASA unless the BOD chooses to provide such via Article 401.b

Status: Submitted

ASA Rule Changes

Rule 1

Change "Substitute": Any member of a teams roster who is not listed as a starting player or a player who reenters the game.

Comments: Brings definition up to date with present rules.

Status: To be handled as housekeeping

Rule 1

Add "Legal Slide": Dropping or diving to and contacting the ground with part(s) of the body other than the feet in an effort to reach a base or avoid a collision.

Comments: The term is used throughout the rules, but not defined

Status: Submitted


Rule 2.1

Change slow pitch pitching distance for men’s, women’s and Co-ed to 53’.

Comments: High tech equipment is making present distance a safety concern

Status: Submitted


Rule 2.1

Change all 18U A to 43’

Comments: Players participating at thie level are athletically capable of competing at this distance

Status: Consolidated with group


Rule 3.1.I

Remove from second sentence "and may be taped as long as there is no violation of this section"

Comments: Eliminates the taping of the bat safety knob. This is an entry point for some altering a bat so that this area is visible for inspection. Change will not lessent the safety knob’s purpose.

Status: Submitted


Rule 3.6.G

Change exception to read: JO 16U & below, all JO slow pitch, Co-ed slow pitch and senior slow pitch play.

Comments: Permits 18U players to wear metal spikes. Players at this level are accomplished athletes and can safely use this equipment.

Status: Consolidated with group


Rule 4.6

Change first sentence to read: "A substitute may take the place of any player whose name is in the teams line up".

Comments: Allows a substitute for the Flex who is not part of the "batting order".

Status: To be handled as housekeeping


Rule 4.6.D

Delete paragraph: "The pitcher is not required to pitch until the first batter faced completes their time at bat or the side has been retired".

Comments: Rule is unnecessary and causes confusion among coaches and umpires.

Status: Submitted


Rule 5.5.C

Change to read: No run shall be scored if a "fourth out" is the result of a base left too soon by a runner that scored or a base missed. Note: A base cannot be missed unless runner physically passes it.

Comments: The offense should not be able to gain an advantage or confuse the defense by violation rules governing runner the bases.

Status: Submitted


Rule 5.5.A

Remove the sentence, "A pitcher who licks their fingers must wipe the fingers off before bringing the in contact with the ball".

Comments: Moistening one’s fingers and applying them to the ball has little to ne effect on the pitched ball and is not easily enforceable.

Status: Submitted

[WestMichBlue]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Rule 1
Add "Legal Slide": Dropping or diving to and contacting the ground with part(s) of the body other than the feet in an effort to reach a base or avoid a collision. Comments: The term is used throughout the rules, but not defined

Status: Submitted

When you define something as legal, do you not take the risk that any action not specifically prohibited is also legal? Can a runner go into 2B with his spikes aimed at F6's throat and now be legal? If legal, how can you charge USC?

Rule 4.6.D

Delete paragraph: "The pitcher is not required to pitch until the first batter faced completes their time at bat or the side has been retired".
Comments: Rule is unnecessary and causes confusion among coaches and umpires.
Status: Submitted

Oh goody! Do I get to say "I told you so?" Ref: Brain Teaser post of Sept 4 this year.

WMB

[SRW]

Irish, are just these ones you suggested and submitted, or are they the entire package before the council this year?

[jimpiano]

Rule 2.1

Change slow pitch pitching distance for men’s, women’s and Co-ed to 53’.

Could they at least learn how to write in parallel structure?

Like ......the pitching distance for men, women and co-ed.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SRW

Irish, are just these ones you suggested and submitted, or are they the entire package before the council this year?

Just mine, Sean

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by WestMichBlue

When you define something as legal, do you not take the risk that any action not specifically prohibited is also legal? Can a runner go into 2B with his spikes aimed at F6's throat and now be legal? If legal, how can you charge USC?

I see your point, but would that not be true of anything defined as "illegal"?

OTOH, setting the parameters of a slide to be legal does not exclude any actions from being USC.

[wadeintothem]

Not to bad Irish. I like the substitute one (Rule 1) especially, since I had an issue with that with a coach this year. Not thrilled with the spikes but its surely coming sooner or later.

[Dakota]

I hope your proposal on 4-6-D is not approved. With due acknowledgment of WMB's late arrival to this, this sentence is my favorite sentence in the entire ASA rule book! I've been ridiculing it for years! It has that "throw the cow over the fence some hay" non-sensical quality. It will truely be a sad day if it is removed!

I like the removing the moistened fingers from the foreign substance rule.

The definition of a legal slide states the purposes of the slide in order for it to be legal. The rest is left to judgment. In WMB's example, if the umpire judged that the purpose of the spikes high action was to contact the defender with the spikes, it would no longer be a legal slide. That's the way I read the definition, anyway.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Just mine, Sean

Darn, I had high hopes for this year if thats all that was being considered.

I didnt realize they were just yours.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Not sure how this will format, it is a cut and paste from an Excel spreadsheet.

This is the complete list of all proposals.

2008 PROPOSED RULE CHANGES
Item # PROPOSAL REASON
RULE Section

1 1 BUNT: a pitched ball that is softly and intentionally tapped a short distance into the infield while holding the bat horizontally with a hand or hands Try to better define a bunt vs. a slap.
2 1 Chopped Ball: (SP) Occurs when the batter strikes downward so that it hits the ground within the infield with a deliberate attempt to deaden the ball using a downward chopping motion of the bat. An attempt to better define a chopped ball.
3 1 Legal slide: Dropping or diving to contact the ground with part(s) of the body other than the feet in an effort to reach the base or avoid a collision, To define a term frequently used in our Rule Book
4 2 1 All Men's SP pitching distance to be 53 feet. Move pitching distance from 50 to 53 feet.
5 2 1 Change Girl's 18-U A and B FP to 43 Feet. To bring consistency to all Junior Olympic Girls 18-U FP.
6 2 1 Change Girl's 18-U A FP to 43 Feet To make 18 A and 18 Gold the same pitching distance 43 Feet.
7 2 1 Seniors Minimum/ Maximum fence distance to 275 Feet. To create the possibility for seniors to hit more over-the-fence home runs.
8 2 1 Move Women's, Men, and Co-Ed SP Pitching distance to 53 Feet Move pitching distance from 50 to 53 feet.
9 2 1 Men's adult SP base distance shall be 70 Feet. Move base distance in Men's from 65 to 70 Feet.
10 2 1 JO Girls 16-U and 18-U FP pitching distance to 43 Feet. Move pitching distance from 40 to 43 feet.
11 3 1 A3 REMOVE the following: Must in the sole opinion and discretion of the Umpire have been manufactured prior to 2000, and if tested would comply with the ASA Bat performance standards then if effect. To allow only bats that bear the 2000 or 2004 certification mark and are not on the non-approved list.
12 3 1 G Add: The bat barrel will be free of audible rattles nor have other signs of excessive wear. Manufacturers have identified as possibly having structural breakdowns.
13 3 1 I REMOVE: "And may be taped as long as there is no violation of this section". To aid in identifying possible damaged or tampered-with bats.
14 3 1 K CONSTRUCTION: the official bat shall be made of wood or single wall aluminum and shall be of one piece construction or a multi piece permanently assembled bat. To eliminate the use of composite bats.
15 3 3 Remove the white cover ball from fast pitch game. Makes all levels of FP play with the same color cover.
16 3 6 G JO girls 18-U Fast Pitch may wear Metal Cleats. Author request this classification of play to be the same as College.
17 3 6 G Addition: Add men's and women's SP to the exception of being able to wear metal spikes Some SP players have requested this.
18 4 6 C4 Effect The unreported substitute is called out. REMOVE the remainder of the Effect. The penalty of disqualification of a player is too severe.
19 4 6 C6 Effect The runner is called out. REMOVE the remainder of the Effect. The penalty of disqualification of a player is too severe.
20 4 6 8/9 Effect REMOVE: The unreported substitute is disqualified. Also remove the note in #9. The penalty of disqualification of a player is too severe.
21 4 6 D REMOVE: "The pitcher is not required to pitch until the first batter faced completes their time at bat or the side has been retired". Rules causes confusion.
22 5 5 C "No run shall score if a fourth out is the result of a base left too soon by a runner who has scored or a base missed by any runner". Author wants a fourth out appeal on any runner missing a base to negate a run.
23 5 5 C "No runs shall score as a result of a Fourth out appeal on the batter-runner missing first bas or nay other runner missing a base they are forced to advance due to the batter becoming a batter-runner". Author wants a fourth out appeal on a runner forced to advance missing a base or a batter-runner missing 1B.
24 5 8 A Effect Add Women's Class D to "an over the fence home run will be an inning ending out. If you can hit homeruns at the D level, you should play at a higher level.
25 5 8 A Effect Add Men's Class C SP to the Effect which has an inning ending out for any over the fence homerun in excess of the limit. To encourage players to play at their appropriate level.
26 5 8 A Effect Delete D inning ending out. Add: A progressive home run rule will be in effect for all Classifications. When a team reaches the home run limit, any in excess shall be ruled a dead ball out, no runner advances when both teams reach the limit. Then no more than one homerun can be hit without a reciprocal homerun by the opponent, same dead ball ruling in effect. Remove inning ending out with one-up concept.
27 5 8 A, 1-5 Home Run limitations per team, per game: Class A-12, Industrial and Major Coed-10, Class B, Church, Masters 35 & over, 40 & over, 45 & over-8, Class A Co-Ed-6, Class C-4 Effect: Players want more over-the -fence home runs.
28 5 8 A 5 Change Class C Homerun limit to 3 from 2. To encourage D teams to move up to C
29 5 8 A5 Change Class C Homerun limit to 3 from 2. Effect: Homerun over the fence in excess of the 3 limit will be an inning ending out. To help in the Classification of teams.
30 5 8 A5 Move Co-Ed from zero to two (2) homeruns Allow Co Ed B to hit homeruns.
31 5 8 A6 Effect Add one home to both Men's D and Co-ED B. Delete: In Men's Class D an over the fence homerun will also be inning ending out. Penalty for inning ending is too severe.
32 5 8 A6 Change zero homeruns to one homerun. D Classification wants to hit over the fence homeruns.
33 5 9 A1 Fast Pitch: Add: 12 after 4 innings Prevent more lopsided ball games.
34 5 9 A2 Modified: Add: 15 after 3 innings Prevent more lopsided ball games.
35 5 9 A3 Slow Pitch: Add: 15 after 4 innings Prevent more lopsided ball games.
36 5 12 Any game participants shall not drink alcoholic beverages or smoke while their game is in progress. Effect: The participant is ejected. Clarification of current rule.
37 6 1 A SP In senior play the pitcher may take a position from the front edge of the pitchers plate to six feet behind the pitcher's plate within the 24 inches of the plate. Allows pitchers to pitch up to 56 feet from the batter.
38 6 3 A 16"SP If a step is taken it can be forward, back, or to the side, provided the pivot foot is in contact with the pitchers plate and the step is simultaneous with(ADD) a hesitation pitch or the release of the pitch. Clarifies the interpretation that a hesitation is a pitch.
39 6 3 G 16"SP ADD: A pick off attempt by the pitcher is a hesitation. Clarifies that pick-off is a hesitation.
40 6 3 H SP Eliminate the 6 foot minimum arc. Not necessary because of excessive speed rule.
41 6 3 H SP Eliminate the 6 foot minimum arc and increase maximum arc to 15 feet. Coincides with moving the pitchers plate back to 53 feet.
42 6 3 H SP Change minimum arc requirement to 4 feet. To make the game friendlier.
43 6 6 A FP Delete the sentence: " A pitcher who licks their fingers must wipe the fingers off before bringing them in contact with the ball" This rule is not easily enforced.
44 7 3 A Delete: "but no part of the foot may be outside the lines prior to the Pitch". It allows part of the foot to touch the ground outside the line.
45 7 4 B Slow Pitch: Add: Will use a strike mat that is 24 inches long and 17 inches wide. The Mat will fit behind home plate joing the plate at 8 1/2 inches from the plate. The combined distance of the Mat and the plate is a rectangular 32 1/2 inches long by 17 inches wide. A legal pitch striking any portion of the plate or mat will be a strike. Senior Players want this rule.
46 7 6 H Slow Pitch: Delete Chops Lack of enforcement
47 7 6 Q For interference when hindering the catcher's fielding or throwing by: Clarify Interference on a batter while in the batter's box.
1. Leaning over the plate 2. Stepping out of or otherwise moving from the batters box 3. Making any movement which hinders the catchers actions or the catchers attempt to make a play. 4. Failing to make a reasonable effort to vacate the area when there is a throw to or from the plate and there is time for the batter to move away.
48 8 2 F6 Fast Pitch: Note: The batter-runner is not out on a dropped third strike when the batter-runner has a right to attempt to advance if the catcher muffs the catch into the batter-runner and the batter-runner has no chance to avoid being contacted by the ball. Trying to clarify interference on a dropped third strike.
49 8 2 L Slow Pitch: For All Men's Adult SP for excess over the fence home runs the batter is out and the inning ends. Allows us to have more homeruns and speed up the game.
50 8 3 I All adult slow pitch, (excluding Masters and Seniors), don't have to run the bases on an over the fence home run or four base award. Speeds up the game.
51 8 4 F Change women's Open slow pitch to women's slow pitch. Allow stealing in all Women's SP.
52 8 4 G Delete complete section G. To allow all 10-U A & B to play regular softball rules.
53 8 4 G1 Delete class B and note that says, "this does not apply to class 10U-A" To have both 10-U A & B play by the special rules.
54 8 5 H When a fair batted ball strikes the foul pole above the fence or leaves the playing field in flight or is touched by a fielder causing the ball to go over the outfield fence in fair territory without touching the ground or the fence or going through the fence. Hitting the fence is the same as hitting the ground.
55 8 8 7I 1a Add Hesitation pitch to 16 " Hesitation pitch is part of the pitching motion.
56 8 10 Add: Adult Men's Fast Pitch to Courtesy Runner rule. This would be beneficial to the Men's FP game.

[Dakota]

Proposal 47: Let's see, if the batter makes ANY move (in or out of the box) she can be called for interference (sub rules 1-3), and if the batter does NOT make a move, she can be called for interference (4).

GREAT idea!

Who thought that one up?

[IRISHMAFIA]

1 1 BUNT: a pitched ball that is softly and intentionally tapped a short distance into the infield while holding the bat horizontally with a hand or hands Try to better define a bunt vs. a slap.

Unnecessary and will cause arguments over whether the bat was horizontal.

2 1 Chopped Ball: (SP) Occurs when the batter strikes downward so that it hits the ground within the infield with a deliberate attempt to deaden the ball using a downward chopping motion of the bat. An attempt to better define a chopped ball.

Unnecessary. This is brought on by SP folks who are upset because some batters are using their brains and not their braun to get a base hit.

U FP pitching distance to 43 Feet. Move pitching distance from 40 to 43 feet.
11 3 1 A3 REMOVE the following: Must in the sole opinion and discretion of the Umpire have been manufactured prior to 2000, and if tested would comply with the ASA Bat performance standards then if effect. To allow only bats that bear the 2000 or 2004 certification mark and are not on the non-approved list.

May make it easier, but sounds a lot like what NFHS and that cause a fair amount of debate

14 3 1 K CONSTRUCTION: the official bat shall be made of wood or single wall aluminum and shall be of one piece construction or a multi piece permanently assembled bat. To eliminate the use of composite bats.

Cannot wait to hear the manufacturer's reps respond to this one in committee. Problem: (opinion) ASA will lose a fair amount of players if this is passed.

16 3 6 G JO girls 18-U Fast Pitch may wear Metal Cleats. Author request this classification of play to be the same as College.

The last sentence should be removed. It is not ASA's purpose or mission to align themselve with any collegiate association.

17 3 6 G Addition: Add men's and women's SP to the exception of being able to wear metal spikes Some SP players have requested this.

Don't buy this one. Also, there is no benefit to ASA Championship Play.

18 4 6 C4 Effect The unreported substitute is called out. REMOVE the remainder of the Effect. The penalty of disqualification of a player is too severe.

The severity is the deterent. Just make it an out, and a coach will not hesitate to attempt to pull a quick one.

25 5 8 A Effect Add Men's Class C SP to the Effect which has an inning ending out for any over the fence homerun in excess of the limit. To encourage players to play at their appropriate level.

I've have heard from SP players that this rule should be at all levels, not just D. Maybe they are right.

26 5 8 A Effect Delete D inning ending out. Add: A progressive home run rule will be in effect for all Classifications. When a team reaches the home run limit, any in excess shall be ruled a dead ball out, no runner advances when both teams reach the limit. Then no more than one homerun can be hit without a reciprocal homerun by the opponent, same dead ball ruling in effect. Remove inning ending out with one-up concept.

The "one-up" HR rule isn't a bad idea, but can make for some terribly long games. I would rather see the reverse. "One-up" until a certain limit instead of "one-up" after hitting a certain limit

31 5 8 A6 Effect Add one home to both Men's D and Co-ED B. Delete: In Men's Class D an over the fence homerun will also be inning ending out. Penalty for inning ending is too severe.

Crybabies

32 5 8 A6 Change zero homeruns to one homerun. D Classification wants to hit over the fence homeruns.

Bad idea. If a team is capable of and wants to hit home runs, they should not be playing at the D level

36 5 12 Any game participants shall not drink alcoholic beverages or smoke while their game is in progress. Effect: The participant is ejected. Clarification of current rule.

Umpires cannot be policing areas outside the fence for BS stuff like this during a game

40 6 3 H SP Eliminate the 6 foot minimum arc. Not necessary because of excessive speed rule.

This isn't the first time this has been raised. If this passes, I guarantee you will see some SP pitchers throwing at a modified speed because too many umpires will not call it or don't know what is "too" fast. The 6' mark gives the umpires a focal point to work with on the field.


41 6 3 H SP Eliminate the 6 foot minimum arc and increase maximum arc to 15 feet. Coincides with moving the pitchers plate back to 53 feet.

When the PP was moved from 46 to 50, many thought this would be necessary. It wasn't and the pitchers adjusted with little to no effort or problems

42 6 3 H SP Change minimum arc requirement to 4 feet. To make the game friendlier.

Why not just play U-trip?

44 7 3 A Delete: "but no part of the foot may be outside the lines prior to the Pitch". It allows part of the foot to touch the ground outside the line.

Bad idea. You will have batters damn near toeing the plate. This may cause more brush backs and, subsequently, more batters HBP in the FP game.

45 7 4 B Slow Pitch: Add: Will use a strike mat that is 24 inches long and 17 inches wide. The Mat will fit behind home plate joing the plate at 8 1/2 inches from the plate. The combined distance of the Mat and the plate is a rectangular 32 1/2 inches long by 17 inches wide. A legal pitch striking any portion of the plate or mat will be a strike. Senior Players want this rule.

Bull$hit

47 7 6 Q For interference when hindering the catcher's fielding or throwing by: Clarify Interference on a batter while in the batter's box.
1. Leaning over the plate 2. Stepping out of or otherwise moving from the batters box 3. Making any movement which hinders the catchers actions or the catchers attempt to make a play. 4. Failing to make a reasonable effort to vacate the area when there is a throw to or from the plate and there is time for the batter to move away.

GFL. This is a clusterf**k of a rule proposal.

48 8 2 F6 Fast Pitch: Note: The batter-runner is not out on a dropped third strike when the batter-runner has a right to attempt to advance if the catcher muffs the catch into the batter-runner and the batter-runner has no chance to avoid being contacted by the ball. Trying to clarify interference on a dropped third strike.

I tried to have this changed a couple years ago (simpler wording, maybe that was the problem) and it was summarily dismissed by all committees

49 8 2 L Slow Pitch: For All Men's Adult SP for excess over the fence home runs the batter is out and the inning ends. Allows us to have more homeruns and speed up the game.

Same dumb mistake made last year. It needs to be "half-inning". Also, the term "speed up the game" will draw a lot of negative votes.

50 8 3 I All adult slow pitch, (excluding Masters and Seniors), don't have to run the bases on an over the fence home run or four base award. Speeds up the game.

There's that phrase again. Why run anything? Let's just draw lines in the outfield and you get whatever is noted in the area the ball lands, single, double, triple!

51 8 4 F Change women's Open slow pitch to women's slow pitch. Allow stealing in all Women's SP.
52 8 4 G Delete complete section G. To allow all 10-U A & B to play regular softball rules.

I think this is a well-intentioned disaster. Non-competitive 10U play can be very........interesting.

53 8 4 G1 Delete class B and note that says, "this does not apply to class 10U-A" To have both 10-U A & B play by the special rules.

Was Championship Play at this level that bad to return to the old restrictions?

54 8 5 H When a fair batted ball strikes the foul pole above the fence or leaves the playing field in flight or is touched by a fielder causing the ball to go over the outfield fence in fair territory without touching the ground or the fence or going through the fence. Hitting the fence is the same as hitting the ground.

This is not true and someone needs to make the author aware of that.

55 8 8 7I 1a Add Hesitation pitch to 16 " Hesitation pitch is part of the pitching motion.
56 8 10 Add: Adult Men's Fast Pitch to Courtesy Runner rule. This would be beneficial to the Men's FP game.[/quote]

[NCASAUmp]

Sheesh... Mike submits 11 changes, and Steve submits 56?! Mike, you're slacking!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Sheesh... Mike submits 11 changes, and Steve submits 56?! Mike, you're slacking!

I'm in a smaller state which means I have fewer idiots with which to deal

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Sheesh... Mike submits 11 changes, and Steve submits 56?! Mike, you're slacking!

I didn't submit any. I posted the complete list of all rule change proposals I received from the chairman of the Player Rep Committee. SRW asked about the complete packet; here it is.

I strongly support a few, strongly oppose a few; some are just blatent attempts to make proposals to appear to support a third party.

Proposal #47 was submitted by a member of the NUS (I have a secondary packet with each individual proposal, full descriptive language attached, and name of the proposer/submitter). I suspect he submitted it for someone else, a nonvoting member, from his region; I wouldn't necessarily assume or suggest it was his idea or wording. As a case in point, Mike's proposals are actually submitted by his Commissioner, since he is a nonvoting member.