Double Free Throw Violation

[Bob Martin]

A1 is shooting the second of 2 foul shots. B1 enters the lane early before A1 releases the ball. A1 then air balls the free throw. It is determined by the calling official there was no distraction of A1 by B1. What is the correct call? (Sorry if this was posted earlier, but I couldn't find a thread discussing this situation.)

[Camron Rust]

Double violation. Go to the AP arrow.

[JRutledge]

It is actually it is treated like a simultaneous violation. You would go to the AP arrow and give the ball to the team that has the arrow.

If there were more FTs (which you clearly stated there was not) then they would get to shoot those if they were entitled to them. Obviously, that would not apply to a 1 and 1 bonus free throw situation.

Peace

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Double violation. Go to the AP arrow.

and for all those looking for it in the book, see Case Play 9.1.3. Situation G

[Bob Martin]

Thank you grunewar for the Case Book reference. I had overlooked it yesterday even though I have it underlined.

[LRZ]

You would also find the answer in the rule book, 9-1-4(b), which references 9-1-3.

[CoachJW]

Team A leads Team B 60-59 with two seconds left in the game.

A1 is shooting the second of two free throws.

Team A has one timeout and Team B is out of timeouts.

AP arrow favors Team B.

Between free throws, Coach A calls their final timeout. Both teams come out of the timeout. A1 has been instructed to miss their free throw off the rim, resulting in the clock starting as soon as the ball is touched. Coach A figures that if Team B gets the rebound, the best they will have is a near-full court shot at the buzzer. If A1 makes the free throw, Team B gets to throw a long inbound pass and has a better chance at a good shot before the buzzer.

Coach B anticipates this and instructs B1 to set up behind the three point line and step across the three point line before A1 shoots the ball. This will result in a violation on Team B and A1 will get to shoot their free throw again after they miss.

A1 misses, B1 violates. A1 gets to shoot again. Coach B has already instructed that B2 is to trade jobs with B1 on the second shot. B2 is lined up along the lane and B2 violates by stepping in before the shot. None of the Team B players has committed an act that would constitute distraction of the shooter while violating. A1 misses off the rim again, but B2 violates. Then B3, B4, etc. Coach B made all of these instructions clear in their timeout and is not audibly calling out these instructions, but the players know what to do and they keep repeating it.

If allowed to continue like this in perpetuity, Coach B is hoping that eventually A1 will shoot and either miss the basket entirely or make their free throw. On a miss, a double violation will result in going to the AP arrow and Team B will get the ball out of bounds, with the clock stopped, with a chance to win with a long pass. On a make, Team A takes a two-point lead, but Team B gets to make the long inbounds pass. The reason Team A wants to miss the free throw is the same reason Team B wants them to make it.

The root of this problem is that the incentives and consequences of the free throw and the violations are misaligned. Should an officiating crew allow it to continue or intervene? If an official intervenes, is there a rule that could be invoked?

[bob jenkins]

Call a T on Team B (after a discussion with them). This has been discussed before.

[Multiple Sports]

Originally Posted by grunewar

and for all those looking for it in the book, see Case Play 9.1.3. Situation G

Thanks Grun....a simple answer and not taking 10 posts in a row to answer OP.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by grunewar

Case Play 9.1.3. Situation G

9.1.3 SITUATION G: While A1 is attempting a final free throw, (a) B1 enters the lane too soon followed by A2, both of whom are in marked lane spaces; or (b) B1, in a marked lane space enters the lane too soon, then shooter A1 steps on the free-throw line while releasing the throw. RULING: In (a), the violation by A2 is ignored and, if the try is successful, the goal shall count and the violation by B1, shall be ignored. If the try is unsuccessful, the ball shall become dead when the free throw ends and a substitute free throw shall be attempted by A1 under the same conditions as those for the original free throw. In (b), a double violation is called and the ball is put in play using the alternating-possession procedure. COMMENT: Anytime the defense violates first, followed by a violation by the free-throw shooter, the officials should consider the possibility of disconcertion. (9-1 Penalty)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by CoachJW

If allowed to continue like this in perpetuity, Coach B is hoping that eventually A1 will shoot and either miss the basket entirely or make their free throw. On a miss, a double violation will result in going to the AP arrow and Team B will get the ball out of bounds, with the clock stopped, with a chance to win with a long pass. On a make, Team A takes a two-point lead, but Team B gets to make the long inbounds pass. The reason Team A wants to miss the free throw is the same reason Team B wants them to make it. The root of this problem is that the incentives and consequences of the free throw and the violations are misaligned. Should an officiating crew allow it to continue or intervene? If an official intervenes, is there a rule that could be invoked?

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Call a T on Team B (after a discussion with them). This has been discussed before.

Not fully disagreeing because I don't have a better answer, but how about a citation for which technical foul to charge for deliberate intentional free throw violations?

When has this been discussed before, I searched but can't find it, I'm probably not using the correct key words?

Does it matter if the official has a date immediately after the game with a hot single Mom?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... how about a citation for which technical foul to charge for deliberate intentional free throw violations?

10-2-B: A team must not: Allow the game to develop into an actionless contest, this includes the following and similar acts: Delay the game by preventing the ball from being made promptly live or from being put in play.

10-4-5: A player must not: Delay the game by acts such as: Preventing the ball from being made live promptly or from being put in play.

In regard to both rules above, the ball is not prevented from being made promptly live (becomes live at disposal).

I'm not sure how the NFHS defines being promptly "put in play" regarding this specific situation, although it "could" be relevant.

Would free throws being attempted during a live ball be considered "actionless"?

10-4-6: A player must not: Commit an unsporting foul. This includes, but is not limited to, acts or conduct such as …

"Not limited to ...". Could it be this above?

Note that there isn't a "team" technical version of this rule, only a "player" technical version.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Call a T on Team B

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Not fully disagreeing because I don't have a better answer ...

I don't have any answer that get the officials out of Dodge before sunrise.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

[I]10-2-B: A team must not: Allow the game to develop into an actionless contest, this includes the following and similar acts: Delay the game by preventing the ball from being made promptly live or from being put in play.

...

We get paid the big bucks to use our judgment in an intelligent way. If an official cannot figure out that purposeful, repeated violations fall into the category of allowing the game to develop into an action-less contest, I'm not going to waste my efforts on them.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

... purposeful, repeated violations fall into the category of allowing the game to develop into an action-less contest.

One of my three given choices. Raymond's fits the situation best, especially since two other choices are only charged to individual players rather than a team.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Possibilities: 10-2-B: A team must not: Allow the game to develop into an actionless contest, this includes the following and similar acts: Delay the game by preventing the ball from being made promptly live or from being put in play.10-4-5: A player must not: Delay the game by acts such as: Preventing the ball from being made live promptly or from being put in play. 10-4-6: A player must not: Commit an unsporting foul. This includes, but is not limited to, acts or conduct such as …