FED Exam Strikes Again

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Other than touching the ball outside the cylinder while reaching through the basket from below, can you EVER have BI when the ball is outside the cylinder?

No you cannot. And it is not a try so it is not GT either.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Basket interference, score 2 points for A, A wins, game over. After awaarding the points for the basket interference by B, get out of Dodge.

Can I get a heehaw for this donkey answer?

You just awarded the win to the wrong team!

[LRZ]

Seriously, give ilyazhito a break. He probably either overlooked the "outside the cylinder" or inadvertently read it as "inside."

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Basket interference, score 2 points for A, A wins, game over.

Is the game over? Would the clock start on the illegal touch?

5-9-4: If play is resumed by a throw-in, the clock must be started when the ball touches, or is legally touched by, a player on the court after it is released by the thrower.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Is the game over? Would the clock start on the illegal touch?

Already asked (but not answered) up in post #22.

And, if this had been an AP throw-in, would the arrow switch?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

... if this had been an AP throw-in, would the arrow switch?

If the arrow doesn't switch on an illegal kick, I don't believe that it would switch on an illegal touch.

4.42.5 SITUATION: Team A is awarded an alternating-possession throw-in. A1’s throw-in pass is illegally kicked by B2. RULING: As a result of B2’s kicking violation, Team A is awarded a new throw-in at the designated spot nearest to where the kicking violation (illegal touching) occurred. Since the alternating-possession throw-in had not been contacted legally, the throw-in has not ended and therefore, the arrow remains with Team A for the next alternating-possession throw-in. COMMENT: The kicking violation ends the alternating-possession throw-in and as a result, a non-alternating-possession throw-in is administered. When the ball is legally touched on the subsequent throw-in following the kicking violation, the arrow shall not be changed and shall remain with Team A. (6-4-5)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Would the clock start on the illegal touch?

5-9-4: If play is resumed by a throw-in, the clock must be started when the ball touches, or is legally touched by, a player on the court after it is released by the thrower.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Already asked (but not answered) up in post #22. And, if this had been an AP throw-in, would the arrow switch?

Originally Posted by BillyMac

If the arrow doesn't switch on an illegal kick, I don't believe that it would switch on an illegal touch.

How about an illegal tap on the way up by the jumper, or an illegal catch (as the first touch) by the jumper?

If the timer started clock, do we reset to 8:00 (or 4:00)?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

How about an illegal tap on the way up by the jumper, or an illegal catch (as the first touch) by the jumper?

If the timer started clock, do we reset to 8:00 (or 4:00)?

Not unless the jumper punched the ball with a closed fist.

The point is that the touching itself is not illegal in these situations, rather it is that the touching infringes some other rule of the game.

There are only two ways of illegally contacting the ball which would result in the clock not starting and the AP arrow not being switched—a kick or strike with a fist.

For any other touching, the clock should start and then be quickly stopped upon the sounding of the official’s whistle which recognizes the violation (OOB, BI, illegal tap during a jump, etc.).

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Already asked (but not answered) up in post #22.

And, if this had been an AP throw-in, would the arrow switch?

Originally Posted by BillyMac

If the arrow doesn't switch on an illegal kick, I don't believe that it would switch on an illegal touch.

Bob brought up this point and it correctly illustrates what the NFHS means by an illegal touch of the ball.

If there is an AP throw-in by Team A from the front court sideline with 8.4 seconds remaining in the game and the first touch of the passed ball occurs when B1 bats the ball out of the imaginary cylinder above the basket, would the AP-arrow switch?

The answer is yes. We have case book plays instructing us to switch the arrow when the first touch of a throw-in pass is by a player who has one foot touching out of bounds. This is the same thing. The player is contacting the ball while simultaneously committing a violation.

Again to be clear, the only illegal touches which do not start the clock or switch the arrow are a kick or punch of the ball. All other touchings of the ball are legal touches. The illegal act is the commission of some violation separate from the manner in which the ball is touched.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Again to be clear, the only illegal touches which do not start the clock or switch the arrow are a kick or punch of the ball. All other touchings of the ball are legal touches. The illegal act is the commission of some violation separate from the manner in which the ball is touched.

“Again to be clear...” Who died and made you the rule-giver?

I agree with your compelling argument that the BI is a legal touch in its own right, but you have not convinced me that a legal touch requires the consumption of playing time when it coincides with a violation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Bob brought up this point and it correctly illustrates what the NFHS means by an illegal touch of the ball.

If there is an AP throw-in by Team A from the front court sideline with 8.4 seconds remaining in the game and the first touch of the passed ball occurs when B1 bats the ball out of the imaginary cylinder above the basket, would the AP-arrow switch?

The answer is yes. We have case book plays instructing us to switch the arrow when the first touch of a throw-in pass is by a player who has one foot touching out of bounds. This is the same thing. The player is contacting the ball while simultaneously committing a violation.

Again to be clear, the only illegal touches which do not start the clock or switch the arrow are a kick or punch of the ball. All other touchings of the ball are legal touches. The illegal act is the commission of some violation separate from the manner in which the ball is touched.

Would you care to cite some of these case book plays or rules that support your position?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

If there is an AP throw-in by Team A from the front court sideline with 8.4 seconds remaining in the game and the first touch of the passed ball occurs when B1 bats the ball out of the imaginary cylinder above the basket, would the AP-arrow switch? The answer is yes.

Yes?

6-4: ART. 4 The direction of the possession arrow is reversed immediately after an alternating-possession throw-in ends. An alternating-possession throw-in ends when the throw-in ends as in 4-42-5.
ART. 5 The opportunity to make an alternating-possession throw-in is lost if the throw-in team violates. If either team fouls during an alternating possession throw-in, it does not cause the throw-in team to lose the possession arrow. If the defensive team commits a violation during the throw-in, the possession arrow is not switched.

4-42-5: The throw-in ends when:
a. The passed ball touches or is touched by another player inbounds.
b. The passed ball touches or is touched by another player out-of-bounds, except as in 7-5-7.
c. The throw-in team commits a throw-in violation.

A defensive violation switches the arrow here:

NFHS Interps 2007-08 SITUATION 3: During an alternating-possession throw-in for Team A, thrower A1 passes the ball directly on the court where it contacts (a) A2 or (b) B2, while he/she is standing on a boundary line. RULING: Out-of-bounds violation on (a) A2; (b) B2. The player was touched by the ball while out of bounds, thereby ending the throw-in. The alternating-possession arrow is reversed and pointed toward Team B's basket when the throw-in ends (when A2/B2 is touched by the ball). A throw-in is awarded at a spot nearest the out-of-bounds violation for (a) Team B; (b) Team A. (4-42-5; 6-4-4; 9-2-2; 9-3-2)

A defensive violation doesn't switch the arrow here:

4.42.5 SITUATION: Team A is awarded an alternating- possession throw-in. A1’s throw-in pass is illegally kicked by B2. RULING: As a result of B2’s kicking violation, Team A is awarded a new throw-in at the designated spot nearest to where the kicking violation (illegal touching) occurred. Since the alternating-possession throw-in had not been contacted legally, the throw-in has not ended and therefore, the arrow remains with Team A for the next alternating-possession throw-in. COMMENT: The kicking violation ends the alternating-possession throw-in and as a result, a non- alternating-possession throw-in is administered. When the ball is legally touched on the subsequent throw-in following the kicking violation, the arrow shall not be changed and shall remain with Team A. (6-4-5)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Situation: Team A trails Team B 67 to 66 with 0.4 seconds left in the fourth period. A1 makes a throwin pass. Ball is in its downward flight, entirely above the basket ring level, outside the imaginary cylinder above the ring, has an excellent chance of entering the basket, and the ball is swatted to the floor by B1, followed by time expiring and the horn sounding in front of Team A's home crowd of 1,500 vociferous fans.

To be fair to ilyazhito, as stated by SC Official, there is one way that basket interference could have been correctly called. I never stated how B1 got to the ball.

I'm not any better than the NFHS or IAABO at writing good unambiguous questions.

4-6-3: Basket interference occurs when a player: Touches the ball outside the cylinder while reaching through the basket from below.