FED Exam Strikes Again

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Goaltending is when a player touches the ball during a try, or tap, while it is in its downward flight, entirely above the basket ring level, outside the imaginary cylinder above the ring, and has the possibility of entering the basket.

(Or a player touches the ball outside the cylinder during a free-throw attempt.)

Situation: Team A trails Team B 67 to 66 with 0.4 seconds left in the fourth period. A1 makes a throwin pass. Ball is in its downward flight, entirely above the basket ring level, outside the imaginary cylinder above the ring, has an excellent chance of entering the basket, and the ball is swatted to the floor by B1, followed by time expiring and the horn sounding in front of Team A's home crowd of 1,500 vociferous fans.

Whatcha got?

Basket interference, score 2 points for A, A wins, game over. After awaarding the points for the basket interference by B, get out of Dodge.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Basket interference, score 2 points for A, A wins, game over. After awaarding the points for the basket interference by B, get out of Dodge.

Why would the game be over if it were BI?

(edited to clarify)

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Why would the game be over if it were BI?

(edited to clarify)

1-point difference. If a ball legally enters the basket, and it is not a try, 2 points are awarded, even if the ball was released from outside the 3-point line. If A is down by 1 point and is awarded 2 points, they win by 1 point.

[ilyazhito]

If the ball was illegally touched by B, causing basket interference, the game clock should not have started. B would receive the ball with a throw-in from the endline with time remaining due to the awarded points. If B legally swatted the ball while it was outside the cylinder, game over, B wins.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

If the ball was illegally touched by B, causing basket interference, the game clock should not have started. B would receive the ball with a throw-in from the endline with time remaining due to the awarded points. If B legally swatted the ball while it was outside the cylinder, game over, B wins.

That is incorrect under NFHS rules. A touching which causes BI needs to be timed. You cannot say that it occurs with no time coming off the clock.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

That is incorrect under NFHS rules. A touching which causes BI needs to be timed. You cannot say that it occurs with no time coming off the clock.

I wouldn't quite say that. I would say that it "may" be timed. If the official administering the throw is also the one calling the BI, they'd never chop time in, thus it is possible no time would come off the clock. That would be valid since the instant it is touched to cause BI it also causes the ball to become dead. However, it is also possible that two different officials may be involved where one indicates time should start and the other whistles the BI causing it to stop. It wouldn't be an error for the timer to start and stop it in that case.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I wouldn't quite say that. I would say that it "may" be timed. If the official administering the throw is also the one calling the BI, they'd never chop time in, thus it is possible no time would come off the clock. That would be valid since the instant it is touched to cause BI it also causes the ball to become dead. However, it is also possible that two different officials may be involved where one indicates time should start and the other whistles the BI causing it to stop. It wouldn't be an error for the timer to start and stop it in that case.

If I’m the administering official, I’m chopping the clock and then blowing the whistle for the violation. Whatever time elapses before the timer can stop the clock is reasonable.

I believe that the NCAA rule is that a minimum of 0.3 seconds must come off the clock.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

A touching which causes BI needs to be timed. You cannot say that it occurs with no time coming off the clock.

In regard to a throwin situation, I respectfully disagree.

If play is resumed by a throw-in, the clock must be started when the ball touches, or is legally touched by, a player on the court after it is released by the thrower.

It is illegal for a player to touch the ball, ring, or net while the ball is on the ring or within the basket. It is illegal for a player to touch the ball if it is in the imaginary cylinder above the ring. It is illegal for a player to touch the ball outside the cylinder while reaching through the basket from below.

These three examples of basket interference all involve illegal touches.

In a throwin situation, clock should not have started, and it should be reset if it was erroneously started.

Nevadaref: Any rulebook, casebook, or annual interpretation citations to further your cause?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Nevadaref: Any rulebook, casebook, or annual interpretation citations to further your cause?

Unfortunately, this casebook play doesn't give us any information about timing:

9.11.2 SITUATION C: Since it is a violation for thrower A1 to throw the ball directly into the basket from out of bounds, what happens if B1 touches the throw-in pass while the ball is in the cylinder above A’s basket? RULING: B1 is charged with basket interference and a two-point goal is scored. Team B is awarded the ball for a throw-in anywhere along the end lines as after a scored goal except the official shall place the ball at the disposal of a player of Team B for a throw-in from any point outside the end line. (4-6)

1996 NFHS Interpretations
SITUATION #16: Since it is a violation for thrower Al to throw the ball directly into the basket from out-of-bounds, what happens, if Bi touches the throw in pass while the ball is in the cylinder above A’s basket?
RULING: Bl is charged with basket interference and a 2-point goal is scored. Team B is awarded the ball for a throw-in anywhere along the end line as after a scored goal except the official shall place the ball at, the disposal of a player of Team B, for a throw-in from any point outside the end line. (9-2-7; 9414)

[BillyMac]

If play is started or resumed by a jump ball, the clock must be started when the tossed ball is legally touched.

It is illegal for a jumper to touch the ball on the way up. It is illegal for a jumper to catch (as the first touch) the ball.

Clock should not have started, and it should be reset if it was erroneously started.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

In regard to a throwin situation, I respectfully disagree. If play is resumed by a throw-in, the clock must be started when the ball touches, or is legally touched by, a player on the court after it is released by the thrower.

On a throwin, if the first player to touch the ball after the throwin pass is made is out of bounds, that's an illegal touch.

Clock should not have started, and it should be reset if it was erroneously started.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

In regard to a throwin situation, I respectfully disagree.

If play is resumed by a throw-in, the clock must be started when the ball touches, or is legally touched by, a player on the court after it is released by the thrower.

It is illegal for a player to touch the ball, ring, or net while the ball is on the ring or within the basket. It is illegal for a player to touch the ball if it is in the imaginary cylinder above the ring. It is illegal for a player to touch the ball outside the cylinder while reaching through the basket from below.

These three examples of basket interference all involve illegal touches.

In a throwin situation, clock should not have started, and it should be reset if it was erroneously started.

Nevadaref: Any rulebook, casebook, or annual interpretation citations to further your cause?

I wouldn't expect any answer in regards to a citation, but I would expect a lot of lawyering.

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[SC Official]

I’m with Billy. The ball must be touched legally for the clock to start and the throw-in to end. Touching the ball within the cylinder is not a legal touch. If time runs off the clock in my game we are correcting it.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by SC Official

I’m with Billy. The ball must be touched legally for the clock to start and the throw-in to end. Touching the ball within the cylinder is not a legal touch. If time runs off the clock in my game we are correcting it.

Even if you could argue the touch was legal, the violation is simultaneous to it. That means no time elapses.


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[ODog]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Basket interference, score 2 points for A, A wins, game over. After awaarding the points for the basket interference by B, get out of Dodge.

This is nothing. Ball is outside the cylinder, so no BI. Clock starts on B1’s legal touch and the game is over. Run off the court ... even in Massachusetts!