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  #31 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 15, 2020, 12:31pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
Coaches.
Were there two rule sets for high school boys and girls before they came under the umbrella of the NFHS (with the same size ball for many years).

I think I remember that back when I was in high school the girls played six on six basketball in a back auxiliary gym (with no bleachers for fans, just a few folding chairs along the perimeter walls) called the "Girls Gym" (yes that's what it was called, of course, this was before Title IX).

I'm sure that Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. will be moseying by shortly to give us all the ancient times details.

I worked with young partner this past season and was telling him a story about a girl's ball being mistakenly used in a boys game back when the size was first changed and he replied, "They once used the same size ball?".

Am I really that old?
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Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Sep 15, 2020 at 01:23pm.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 15, 2020, 01:49pm
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The 28 foot marks define the boundaries of the benches and serve as throw-in locations for fouls and violations committed above the free throw line and outside the diagonal lines from the upper edges of the lane to the corners.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 15, 2020, 02:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
The 28 foot marks define the boundaries of the benches and serve as throw-in locations for fouls and violations committed above the free throw line and outside the diagonal lines from the upper edges of the lane to the corners.
Already been addressed.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 15, 2020, 02:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Were there two rule sets for high school boys and girls before they came under the umbrella of the NFHS (with the same size ball for many years).
I have no idea. All I know is that the NCAA men's and women's coaches who write the rules have no reason or incentive to care what the other side does. And since college officials almost never cross between the two that isn't something they have to worry about, either.

Interestingly I believe the other NCAA sports do use the same rules for men and women (except lacrosse because M/W lacrosse are two almost entirely different games).
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 15, 2020, 03:31pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post

Interestingly I believe the other NCAA sports do use the same rules for men and women (except lacrosse because M/W lacrosse are two almost entirely different games).
Hockey is different as well.

Again one sport makes over a billion dollars and the other loses money. And football makes more money than both of them. Just a fact.

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  #36 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 15, 2020, 03:46pm
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Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
... except lacrosse because M/W lacrosse are two almost entirely different games,
From the little that I've observed, boys high school lacrosse is an exciting, physical, contact sport; girls high school lacrosse is a whistle-filled, dainty, delicate, boring, non-contact sport.

Yeah, I said that out loud.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Sep 15, 2020 at 03:56pm.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 15, 2020, 03:56pm
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Two Almost Entirely Different Games ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
... NCAA sports do use the same rules for men and women (except lacrosse because M/W lacrosse are two almost entirely different games).
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Hockey is different as well.
And I believe that both sports (lacrosse and ice hockey) have different rule sets for boys and girls on the high school level as well.

Even with different rule sets, different jumping abilities of the players, and different size balls, NCAA women's basketball and NCAA men's basketball are recognizable as being the same game.

At least to some visitors from Mars who never observed any basketball games played at any level.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 15, 2020, 04:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Even with different rule sets, different jumping abilities of the players, and different size balls, NCAA women's basketball and NCAA men's basketball are recognizable as being the same game.

At least to some visitors from Mars who never observed any basketball games played at any level.
They are not officiated the same, even at the high school level. So not sure I agree.

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  #39 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 15, 2020, 04:40pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Were there two rule sets for high school boys and girls before they came under the umbrella of the NFHS (with the same size ball for many years).

I think I remember that back when I was in high school the girls played six on six basketball....

I'm sure that Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. will be moseying by shortly to give us all the ancient times details.
I'm no official, but I'm an old timer, and can tell you that those girls' basketball rules were kept by NAGWS. Iowa's was the last state association to use them interscholastically. At one time there were 3 zones on the court, but later they liberalized them to 2.

Before NCAA administered women's basketball, intercollegiate women's basketball was administered by the AIAW, who also had their own playing rules.

As to the other rules relating to those marks on the court you were probably expecting Mark DeNucci to mosey along for, I believe you were referring to the provisions on "lack of sufficient action". They depended on the score of the game at the time. The team that was behind in score, believe it or not, was responsible for "action"; if the score was tied, it was (again, believe it or not) the team without the ball that was responsible. Seems like these provisions were there to magnify an advantage.

When the team with responsibility for action had the ball in the front court, it was a violation for their players alone or in combination to hold the ball in the midcourt area defined by those marks for 5 seconds at a time, after a once-a-game warning. When the opponents of he team with responsibility for action had the ball in that midcourt area, after a similar warning, the team with responsibility had to not leave him not closely guarded for 5 seconds at a time. If those opponents also had another player in the midcourt area, the team with responsibility had to put one other player in the midcourt area when the ball was there. Additional players by the team without responsibility did not incur any additional requirement of defenders to come into that area.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 15, 2020, 05:25pm
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Apple Cider Season ...

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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
They are not officiated the same, even at the high school level.
Agree, but it's still the same basic game.

Not apples and oranges, but Red Delicious Apples and Granny Smith Apples.

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Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Sep 15, 2020 at 05:34pm.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 15, 2020, 05:31pm
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Ancient Times ...

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Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
... the provisions on "lack of sufficient action". They depended on the score of the game at the time. The team that was behind in score, believe it or not, was responsible for "action"; if the score was tied, it was (again, believe it or not) the team without the ball that was responsible. Seems like these provisions were there to magnify an advantage. When the team with responsibility for action had the ball in the front court, it was a violation for their players alone or in combination to hold the ball in the midcourt area defined by those marks for 5 seconds at a time, after a once-a-game warning. When the opponents of he team with responsibility for action had the ball in that midcourt area, after a similar warning, the team with responsibility had to not leave him not closely guarded for 5 seconds at a time. If those opponents also had another player in the midcourt area, the team with responsibility had to put one other player in the midcourt area when the ball was there. Additional players by the team without responsibility did not incur any additional requirement of defenders to come into that area.
Why is Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. posting under Robert Goodman's username?

How about an ancient times lesson on "change of status"? That will knock the socks off of the young'uns.

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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 15, 2020, 09:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Why can't the NCAA men and the NCAA women get together and use a single rule set, and just change the size of the basketball?

...
I'll classify this as a rhetorical question because nobody here will be able to answer definitively.

NCAA Women's rules are actually a lot closer to NBA rules then NCAA Men's rules are.


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  #43 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 16, 2020, 06:42am
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Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
I have no idea. All I know is that the NCAA men's and women's coaches who write the rules have no reason or incentive to care what the other side does. And since college officials almost never cross between the two that isn't something they have to worry about, either.

Interestingly I believe the other NCAA sports do use the same rules for men and women (except lacrosse because M/W lacrosse are two almost entirely different games).
VB is also different.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 16, 2020, 10:26am
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Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus ...

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Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
VB is also different.


Different like apples and oranges, or different like McIntosh Apples and Honeycrisp Apples?

Would visitors from Mars who never previously observed any volleyball games notice the differences right away (as I, not knowing any of the rules, or not knowing anything else about the sport, noticed right away after observing boys and girls high school lacrosse games), or are the differences only minor?

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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Sep 16, 2020 at 10:31am.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 16, 2020, 01:35pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post


Different like apples and oranges, or different like McIntosh Apples and Honeycrisp Apples?

Would visitors from Mars who never previously observed any volleyball games notice the differences right away (as I, not knowing any of the rules, or not knowing anything else about the sport, noticed right away after observing boys and girls high school lacrosse games), or are the differences only minor?

This is when you start losing the audience and anybody who may have some good information doesn't bother reading the rest of the thread.
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