Camps this Offseason

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I don't know who's talking about getting rid of camps, at least I know I'm not. I'm talking about getting rid of the exorbitant prices we pay to go to camp, and sometimes to stay on staff

John Adams before he was the NCAA Men's Supervisor, would run camps for literally $50. Adams at the time assigned a D3 league, D2 league and the Horizon League that is now taken over by the B1G. That was his training ground for his hiring. But the reality is that it was well known that John was a rich man outside of officiating. He would run a couple of these camps to get identify people. But to be fair as much as I loved his camps, they were not about teaching or learning anything. It seemed strictly a way to hire officials. He did not go over mechanics. He did not go over expectations other than he would talk about the "Money of D1 Basketball." He would talk about an hour by why he is not going to hire you, when he could hire Ed Hightower or Steve Welmer because if his teams made the NCAA Tournament, they would make close to 2 million dollars at the time for every game they played. And then he talked about how that money went to the other schools and how the Horizon a couple of times had 2 teams in the NCAA Tournament not just one. He went on to state how a call in the middle of the season could influence a team making the tournament in a mid-major and how that related to who would his coaches like to see more than some young kid that has not "name" or recognition to his officiating at that level. He even went on and on about if you were west of this town you probably were not as good of an official, but he would need you because you were closer to his a school in that location. Where if you were east of that same town, you would likely have seen much better ball but you were in competition for fewer slots based on your location and that he could use multiple officials from that area at that time. His conversations about that were by far the best, but again I did not learn about rotations, dealing with coaches or what he made a decision about when hiring someone.

A lot of the campers ended up being D1 officials. A lot of his clinicians went from being lower level D1 guys or D2 officials to go on to work the B1G or other conferences like the B12 Consortium (which was one of the first ones at the D1 level at the time). It was actually amazing experience, but not a one for vast opportunities if you did not have someone in your corner that knew him well. Now when John went on to work as the NCAA Supervisor, different supervisors took over his leagues, and then in some cases there were more opportunities for those in certain areas after he left. But I will always be thankful to John and the experience, but I was already an experienced official when I attended his stuff.

Originally Posted by Raymond

Talked to somebody today who had initially paid $500 to go to a staff camp this spring, but it got postponed For various reasons they have since decided to relocate to another state, which will take them too far away from the conference. The supervisor does not want to give them back their camp fee, for a camp that's still at least two months away. That's the mindset and environment I'm talking about.

And that is wrong if that is the case and not what I would ever defend. That is not about the camp system that is about that supervisor. Many of my assignors that took our money for camps, either would pay us back or even apply it to next year's camp if they those cannot attend the rescheduled event.

Peace

[bucky]

Isn't it simple? Camps are a racket but "solutions" or changes can only be performed by those running the racket. That won't happen so on it goes.

It's like asking Trump to change the bankruptcy laws.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bucky

Isn't it simple? Camps are a racket but "solutions" or changes can only be performed by those running the racket. That won't happen so on it goes.

It's like asking Trump to change the bankruptcy laws.

Like politics or a bill, what is the solution? Leagues are going to hire people one way or the other. What is the solution? You either have a camp system of some kind or you will have nothing and hope you know the right people. What is your solution?

Peace

[bucky]

I definitely have solutions to offer but that is irrelevant. Only those in charge can make the changes. A "camp system" or any other type of "system" is necessary in order to evaluate the abilities of people, whether basketball or....anything else. I would not call the current method, for college basketball officials a "system", rather I would elect to use other words such as "network, club, organization, racket, etc."

Not looking to debate, just giving my two cents.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bucky

I definitely have solutions to offer but that is irrelevant. Only those in charge can make the changes. A "camp system" or any other type of "system" is necessary in order to evaluate the abilities of people, whether basketball or....anything else. I would not call the current method, for college basketball officials a "system", rather I would elect to use other words such as "network, club, organization, racket, etc."

Not looking to debate, just giving my two cents.

That is fine that you are not looking for a debate, but that was not the point of my question. My position is that no matter what you do, someone is going to hire you based off of some kind of "network, club or organization." So if not by camps, how are you going to get hired?

Now you can call it whatever you like, but the reality and the only thing I am focused on is whatever that is, there will be someone complaining. Either you treat this like a business or you treat it like someone has to give you something for being a true "independent contractor." And no one is putting a gun to any of our heads to pay any amount for a clinic. The majority of us are high school officials at best. In my state, you can go to camps that are either free or around $20 if you have to get some clinic credit depending on your previous membership with an organization. Even the ones that have a court portion can be around $50 (and lower for Part 2 clinic credit). That is less than one game fee for a high school game. If you are really froggy, you can pay as much as $150 for a camp where a D1 official is the headliner and the assignor that runs the camp with him assigns a NAIA league as well as high school. If the assignor of the NAIA league hires you, you can make $185 for one game, and that is more than the cost of the camp.

I'm just saying at some point we have choices to make, even if you call a rachet. Most officials should never go to that higher level of a camp if they have little to no desire to work anything beyond varsity. Now if that is different in other areas that is fine and I am sorry for that, but not the case here. I am just saying you can pay your little $20 and get what you pay for in the long run, basic credit to keep your licensing and no one tells you anything about how you officiate. And you might not even learn the basic of 3 person which is something many officials only learn by working those games. This is like my regular business and investment in yourself or you can just hope you know what you know and wish for the best by doing what you think others do to be successful. That is really all I am saying.

Peace