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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 03, 2020, 04:36pm
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The NFHS/NCAA point was regarding an offensive player, typically with the ball, performing abnormal movement. There were instances, perhaps while rebounding, where the player would not have the ball, but again, it was more in line with the player performing an aggressive act, and again, typically with elbows. The OP play involved a player without the ball, their hands (not elbows), and a non-aggressive (IMO) play. This is kinda the reason why I questioned it. It was an abnormal play involving a defender running into an outstretched arm/hand of an offensive player without the ball. Consider how to officiate it if the defender ran into a bent elbow of the offensive player. Adjudicate differently? Think of cutters running into the hands of defenders. There are instances where abnormal plays such as these can happen. Each will have its own nuances that make our judgement valuable. No?
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 04, 2020, 11:48am
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Normal Pivoting Movements ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
The NFHS ... point was regarding an offensive player, typically with the ball, performing abnormal movement ...
The NFHS Point of Emphasis does address abnormal movement (excessive swinging), but it also addresses normal pivoting movements: An elbow in movement but not excessive should be an intentional foul.

But how is an official with less than seven years experience supposed to know this contact above the shoulders 2012-13 Point of Emphasis?

Stupid NFHS.

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Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Mar 04, 2020 at 03:07pm.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 04, 2020, 04:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Padilla made the original team control foul call. Tony and John went to the table together for the monitor review and kept it as a common foul. So he did get a second look. I have this as clearly warring off the defender with a straight arm which is out-stretched and not legal.
I know. But he can't rescind that foul.
I'm wondering if he would have a foul at all on second look.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 04, 2020, 04:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Extended arms by post players has been emphasized in NCAA men's for a couple years now. The offensive player was not legal.

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Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
NCAA Men's Major Officiating Concerns

"Post Play This area of the game continues to be a problem due to illegal actions by both the offense and defense. Dislodging by both the offense and defense must not be permitted. In addition, the warding off by the offensive player with a straight arm when he is attempting to post up is a foul when contact occurs. “Swim” moves by either the offense or defense are also fouls. The key to cleaning up post play is to call the first foul, keeping in mind that the defense is permitted to place a forearm on the back of a post player in the post area as long as equal pressure is being applied to the opponent. "

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I know this.

But in all of the videos I've seen regarding this POE, none of the plays look like this. Not sure I'd call this warding off since there is no defender there when he puts his arm out. I don't think he's attempting to restrict anyone's movement. Looks more like he's using his hand to feel WHERE the defender is, not to prevent him from doing anything. If this same contact catches the defender in the shoulder, it's nothing.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 04, 2020, 06:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MechanicGuy View Post
I know this.



But in all of the videos I've seen regarding this POE, none of the plays look like this. Not sure I'd call this warding off since there is no defender there when he puts his arm out. I don't think he's attempting to restrict anyone's movement. Looks more like he's using his hand to feel WHERE the defender is, not to prevent him from doing anything. If this same contact catches the defender in the shoulder, it's nothing.
Post players cannot stick their arms out horizontally and cause illegal contact. The play posted is an obvious foul to me and something I've called in the past. I also warn post players when I see them putting elbows and forearms close an opponent's head and neck area.

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