Illegal Dribble Scenarios

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by billyu2

Provided A2 is the first to touch the ball. (4.15.4C) In this situation the ball hitting the opponent's backboard means nothing because the ball then was first touched/deflected by teammate(s). A2 can recover the deflected pass and dribble without penalty. Correct?

Nice citation billyu2.

4.15.4 SITUATION C: After dribbling and coming to a stop, A1 throws the ball: (a) against the opponent’s backboard and catches the rebound; (b) against an official, immediately recovers the ball and dribbles again; or (c) against his/her own backboard in an attempt to score (try), catches the rebound and dribbles again. RULING: A1 has violated in both (a) and (b). Throwing the ball against the opponent’s backboard or an official constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it strikes the official or the board. In (c), the action is legal. Once the ball is released on the try, there is no player or team control, therefore, A1 can recover the rebound and begin a dribble.

Correct? Let's discuss.



"Provided A1 is first to touch the ball" in 4.15.4 SITUATION C doesn't, at first blush, appear to address the "weird" situations that we have discussed in this thread.

4.15.4 SITUATION C says what it says (that can't be denied) so we must turn back to the actual wording of the rule for guidance regarding these "weird" circumstances.

9-5: A player shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has
ended, unless it is after he/she has lost control because of:
ART. 1 A try for field goal.
ART. 2 A touch by an opponent.
ART. 3 A pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by,
another player.

Basketball Rules Fundamentals
19. A ball which touches the front face or edges of the backboard is treated
the same as touching the floor inbounds, except that when the ball touches
the thrower’s backboard, it does not constitute a part of a dribble.

Consider the ball throw at the backboard to be a bounce pass that is then touched by other players.

billyu2 is correct.

It's difficult to disagree with this very specific interpretation as described in the casebook play.

Nice post billyu2.

[WI_Ref]

Suppose a player is dribbling into traffic and just as the ball is on the way up after hitting the floor(just before dribbler touches) a defender gets a hand in just enough to deflect the ball so that the dribbler catches the ball with both hands. The dribbler continues on and puts the ball right down starting a new dribble. Is this considered a double dribble? It sure looks like one. Would the hand touching be considered loss of control since the dribbler had to grab with two hands instead of the one?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by WI_Ref

Suppose a player is dribbling into traffic and just as the ball is on the way up after hitting the floor (just before dribbler touches) a defender gets a hand in just enough to deflect the ball so that the dribbler catches the ball with both hands. The dribbler continues on and puts the ball right down starting a new dribble. Is this considered a double dribble?

9-5: A player shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has
ended, unless it is after he/she has lost control because of:
ART. 1 A try for field goal.
ART. 2 A touch by an opponent.
ART. 3 A pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by,
another player.

Does "deflect the ball" cause "lost control"?

[WI_Ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

9-5: A player shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has
ended, unless it is after he/she has lost control because of:
ART. 1 A try for field goal.
ART. 2 A touch by an opponent.
ART. 3 A pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by,
another player.

Does "deflect the ball" cause "lost control"?

I'm not exactly sure, that's why I'm asking you fellas. In one sense, control was lost for a normal dribble, in another sense the player kept control of the ball.

For full disclosure, I called an illegal dribble but seeing this thread got me wondering

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by WI_Ref

I'm not exactly sure, that's why I'm asking you fellas. In one sense, control was lost for a normal dribble, in another sense the player kept control of the ball. For full disclosure, I called an illegal dribble but seeing this thread got me wondering.

You have to decide, which is why you get paid the big bucks.

Was there a short-loved, slightly interrupted dribble in the middle of this play?

And please don't lose any sleep over this.

[WI_Ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

You have to decide, which is why you get paid the big bucks.

Was there a short-loved, slightly interrupted dribble in the middle of this play?

And please don't lose any sleep over this.

Illegal dribble it is!

No sleep lost! Ha

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by WI_Ref

Suppose a player is dribbling into traffic and just as the ball is on the way up after hitting the floor(just before dribbler touches) a defender gets a hand in just enough to deflect the ball so that the dribbler catches the ball with both hands. The dribbler continues on and puts the ball right down starting a new dribble. Is this considered a double dribble? It sure looks like one. Would the hand touching be considered loss of control since the dribbler had to grab with two hands instead of the one?

Originally Posted by WI_Ref

Illegal dribble it is! No sleep lost!

4-15-5: . An interrupted dribble occurs when the ball is loose after -
deflecting off the dribbler or after it momentarily gets away from the
dribbler. There is no player control during an interrupted dribble.

So you decided that the dribble was not interrupted, even in a generic sense (which may have included a momentarily loss of player control), by the opponent's deflection.

So no loss of "control", even in a generic sense.

9-5: A player shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has
ended, unless it is after he/she has lost control because of:
ART. 1 A try for field goal.
ART. 2 A touch by an opponent.
ART. 3 A pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by,
another player.

You were there, I wasn't, I could certainly live with your interpretation, but I might have ruled a legal play.

But hey, you probably get paid bigger bucks than me, I've been working middle school games (chronic injury) for the past two seasons.

Who am I to judge (apologies to Pope Francis).

Originally Posted by Raymond

That's probably how most of us have officiated it, but it's not what the rule book says.

Sleep well my friend.