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Old Wed Feb 26, 2020, 02:53pm
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Illegal Dribble Scenarios

I had an illegal dribble call recently and want to confirm my understanding of some scenarios:

1. While in the act of dribbling, A1 loses control of the dribble, the ball then bounces off A2 or B2, A1 regains control of the ball with two hands and then starts dribbling again. ILLEGAL DRIBBLE.
2. A1 while dribbling has the ball slapped away by B1. A1 regains control of the ball with two hands and starts dribbling again. LEGAL. (Rule 9-5-2.)
3. A1 ends their dribble. A1 then passes the ball and it touches A2 or B2. A1 regains control of the ball with two hands and starts dribbling again. LEGAL. (Rule 9-5-3.)
4. A1 ends their dribble. A1 then fumbles the ball and the ball bounces away. The ball then touches A2 or B2. A1 regains control of the ball with two hands and starts dribbling again. LEGAL. (Rule 9-5-3.)

Is my understanding of the above scenarios correct? Thanks all.
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Old Wed Feb 26, 2020, 03:21pm
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1. Only would the ball contacting B2 allow A1 to dribble again.

2. The defender slapped the ball away and that gives anyone with the ball a chance to dribble again. That is legal.

3. Yes, they completed a pass. This is legal regardless of who touches in this case.

4. For the most part legal.

Now when you say touches someone, just touching alone does not allow a player to dribble again. It has to be part of some action that either helped them lost control of the ball or continue an active pass of the ball.

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Old Wed Feb 26, 2020, 03:35pm
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Interrupted Dribble ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RefBob View Post
1. While in the act of dribbling, A1 loses control of the dribble, the ball then bounces off A2 or B2, A1 regains control of the ball with two hands and then starts dribbling again. ILLEGAL DRIBBLE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
1. Only would the ball contacting B2 allow A1 to dribble again. Now when you say touches someone, just touching alone does not allow a player to dribble again. It has to be part of some action that either helped them lost control of the ball or continue an active pass of the ball.
9-5: A player shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has
ended, unless it is after he/she has lost control because of:
ART. 1 A try for field goal.
ART. 2 A touch by an opponent.
ART. 3 A pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by,
another player.


I certainly see JRutledge's point (lost control because of ...).

Just not certain about his answer (only would the ball contacting B2 allow A1 to dribble again).

If I end my dribble and I'm just standing there holding the ball and if my teammate comes along and just touches the ball (no loss of control), I can't start a new legal dribble. Right?

If I end my dribble and I'm just standing there holding the ball and if my opponent comes along and just touches the ball (no loss of control), I can't start a new legal dribble. Right?

A1 loses control of the ball as a result his own ineptitude which results in an interrupted dribble. Ball legally touches teammate A2's leg. A1 picks up the loose ball after it touches A2? Can A1 legally start a new dribble?

A1 loses control of the ball as a result his own ineptitude which results in an interrupted dribble. Ball legally touches opponent B2's leg. A1 picks up the loose ball after it touches B2? Can A1 legally start a new dribble?

Is it possible that it could be an illegal second dribble if touched by either A2 or B2?

Neither of them caused A1 to "lose control".

It was A1's own ineptitude that caused him to "lose control" that resulted in an interrupted dribble, not a touch by a teammate or an opponent.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Mar 01, 2020 at 01:50pm.
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Old Wed Feb 26, 2020, 03:48pm
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This is where I’m confused. A1, while in the act of dribbling, loses control of the ball totally on their own and the ball bounces away, it then hits A2 or B2 in the back of the leg, A1 then picks up the ball with two hands and starts dribbling again. I think it’s an illegal dribble in both cases. The loss of initial control of the dribble by A1 is not a fumble under 4-21 because the ball didn’t “unintentionally drop or slip from A1’s grasp.” It also doesn’t fit within any of the other illegal dribble exceptions in 9-5.

Thanks again.
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Old Wed Feb 26, 2020, 03:52pm
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Call A Spade A Spade ... ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RefBob View Post
A1, while in the act of dribbling, loses control of the ball totally on their own and the ball bounces away ... The loss of initial control of the dribble by A1 is not a fumble under 4-21 because the ball didn’t “unintentionally drop or slip from A1’s grasp.”
Let's call it what it is, an interrupted dribble, certainly not a fumble, and continue to discuss from there.

Nice thread RefBob. Should be very educational.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Feb 26, 2020 at 03:55pm.
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Old Fri Feb 28, 2020, 12:07pm
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Illegal Dribble ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Should be very educational.
Wow? 215 views in almost three days and only RefBob, JRutledge, and BillyMac want to comment on this situation?

A1 loses control of the ball as a result his own ineptitude (ball deflects off his shoe) which results in an interrupted dribble. Ball legally touches teammate A2's leg. A1 picks up (catches) the loose ball after it touches A2? Can A1 legally start a new dribble?

A1 loses control of the ball as a result his own ineptitude (ball deflects off his shoe) which results in an interrupted dribble. Ball legally touches opponent B2's leg. A1 picks up (catches) the loose ball after it touches B2? Can A1 legally start a new dribble?

I'm not 100% sure if RefBob is correct, and I'm not 100% sure if JRutledge is correct (although I'm leaning toward RefBob's interpretation.).

It would be nice if some other (and maybe a followup by JRutledge) Forum members stepped up with an opinion.

I've already given a citation to work from:

9-5: A player shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has
ended, unless it is after he/she has lost control because of:
ART. 1 A try for field goal.
ART. 2 A touch by an opponent.
ART. 3 A pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by,
another player.


What are you all waiting for, the March Hare?

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“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Mar 01, 2020 at 01:49pm.
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Old Fri Feb 28, 2020, 12:50pm
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There is a rule that states what causes a dribble to end. If one of those 5 conditions are met, then 9-5 applies.
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Old Fri Feb 28, 2020, 01:01pm
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Dribble Ends ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
There is a rule that states what causes a dribble to end. If one of those 5 conditions are met, then 9-5 applies.
4-15-4: The dribble ends when:
a. The dribbler catches or causes the ball to come to rest in one or
both hands.
b. The dribbler palms/carries the ball by allowing it to come to rest in
one or both hands.
c. The dribbler simultaneously touches the ball with both hands.
d. The ball touches or is touched by an opponent and causes the
dribbler to lose control.
e. The ball becomes dead.
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Old Fri Feb 28, 2020, 03:22pm
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So 9-5 only actually applies if 4-15-4 a,b,or c occurs.

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Old Fri Feb 28, 2020, 04:10pm
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Make Me Lose Control (Eric Carmen, 1988) ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
Any player contacting the ball allows dribbler to pick it up and start again.
... even without causing the dribbler to lose control?

Keep in mind that in these situations the dribbler loses control of the ball as a result his own ineptitude which results in an interrupted dribble, not as a result of a touch by another player.

This is not a fumble caused by the touch by another player, it's an interrupted dribble (for example, ball dribbled off ball handler's foot).

4-15-4: The dribble ends when: d. The ball touches or is touched by an opponent and causes the dribbler to lose control.

9-5: A player shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has
ended, unless it is after he/she has lost control because of:
ART. 1 A try for field goal.
ART. 2 A touch by an opponent.
ART. 3 A pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by,
another player.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Feb 29, 2020 at 01:30pm.
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Old Fri Feb 28, 2020, 04:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
Any player contacting the ball allows dribbler to pick it up and start again.
That's probably how most of us have officiated it, but it's not what the rule book says.
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Old Fri Feb 28, 2020, 04:34pm
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Listen (Chicago Transit Authority, 1968) …

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
That's probably how most of us have officiated it, but it's not what the rule book says.
Bingo.
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Old Sat Feb 29, 2020, 12:50pm
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There is no player control during an interrupted dribble. It is called an "interrupted dribble" based on what was happening (player was dribbling) not based on what is currently happening. Ball can hit teammate and original dribbler can retrieve and dribble.
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Old Sat Feb 29, 2020, 01:13pm
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Because Of A Touch By An Opponent ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
There is no player control during an interrupted dribble ...
Agree.

But in this situation the loss of player control was not "because of a touch by an opponent", as required by rule.

In this situation the loss of player control during the interrupted dribble was because of the ball handler's own ineptitude (maybe the dribbled ball hit off his foot).

The "another player" part of the rule isn't relevant because there was no pass, nor was there a fumble, in this situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
A1 loses control of the ball as a result his own ineptitude (ball deflects off his shoe) which results in an interrupted dribble. Ball legally touches opponent B2's leg. A1 picks up (catches) the loose ball after it touches B2? Can A1 legally start a new dribble?
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Mar 01, 2020 at 01:48pm.
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Old Sat Feb 29, 2020, 08:55pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Agree.

But in this situation the loss of player control was not "because of a touch by an opponent", as required by rule.

In this situation the loss of player control during the interrupted dribble was because of the ball handler's own ineptitude (maybe the dribbled ball hit off his foot).

The "another player" part of the rule isn't relevant because there was no pass, nor was there a fumble, in this situation.
I have deleted 2 responses. I agree with the OP ruling 99%, especially after research and reading NFHS case 4.15.4 Sit D and Sit E. I will get over that 1% hump soon enough.
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